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Darkin
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PostSubject: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 14:55

so my friend (Necron player) played his first game against my dark eldar. this was my first game with them as well and I won it pretty substantially.
I played 3 DL Ravangers, § Splinter Cannon Venoms with a. 5 kabalite squats in them and kept them standard also had 2 Archons and 3 Dissie RWJF
he said this list would be power-play and that i should change it. I said I like this list because I can play it aggressively without playing bad units and that's hard to switch stuff because a lot in our index is rubbish. He still accused me of power-playing

so is this power play
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 15:31

Your playing the good units, DE just like necrons needs to play with its best units. But Necrons are for sure worst than DE, you could play down a little bit until he figures out the game better.

You can still take the same list, just spread your damage out and dont over kill his units so he can play with his rules and live longer.

Sadly Necrons are one of the worst armies atm. Make sure he is happy playing them, and fun for you too.

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 15:34

It's all relative, m8. What was his list?
3 Ravagers and 3 RWJF always gives me a double take - It's a strong list. If you're friend doesn't have fun playing against it, change it up, otherwise you might not have someone to play against in general.

Don't be afraid to try new things in the index. Despite what the majority of people on here will tell you, most units aren't unplayable. They might not be competitive, but they do fine in a casual environment.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 15:35

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
It's all relative, m8. What was his list?
3 Ravagers and 3 RWJF always gives me a double take - It's a strong list. If you're friend doesn't have fun playing against it, change it up, otherwise you might not have someone to play against in general.

Don't be afraid to try new things in the index. Despite what the majority of people on here will tell you, most units aren't unplayable. They might not be competitive, but they do fine in a casual environment.

For sure this, most units are "viable" and its more fun to play different units too. IMO the things to NEVER take are Heat Lances and Bloodbrides, both of those are completely over costed.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 15:48

That looks like the kind of list that you might bring to a tournament. Whether that's "power play" or not depends entirely on the type of game that you and your opponent are trying to have.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 16:51

Power-play isn't an absolute notion, nor an objective one.

What happened here was that you and your mate didn't play the game with the same mindset, and you looked like you only wanted to win while he was expecting a friendly, noobish game for him to learn.

So here's my advice : build your lists accordingly to the context of game. If you play vs a seasoned player, and you both want a challenging, tough game of grit and wits, build a strong and merciless list. If you play with a more recent, less instructed player that is expecting a friendly environnement to learn, use the opportunity to try new things and experiment. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to win... just that you can allow yourself a bit more fantasy, because you're starting with an advantage over him (game knowledge).

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 16:51

Sometimes, what we do with friends is: First game, we bring our armies without knowing what he will bring (we know the army, but not what's inside). Then, the loser can tailor his list against the winning list. And after, the next loser can tailor.... That mean, if you tailor too much, you'll win this round, but will be crushed by the counter next time.
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AshCrow
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 17:47

>dark eldar
>Power-play

Pick one.

Lol, in all seriousness Mppqlmd is right. It's all about matching mindset, I play two opposite extremes of people in my small group, one really seasoned guy who we bring very optimized stuff (notice how I didn't say overpowered or mean or competitive?) To play vs one another which gives us close strategically fun games for us. The other side of this is 3 of my friends are brand new or have a casual list. I try to bring thematic things and experiment and bring usually not multiples of others. If they're not having fun being tabled, I'm not having fun either. I like close games and shocking moments, things we can talk about together over beers. 40k outside a tournament is sorta half player half dungeon master. You're not only playing for yourself, but for your buddy across the table.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 22:52

to be fair to Necrons, much of their stuff is actually really good, it is just insanely overpriced for no reason.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 23:56

The problem with them is that their vehicles are can be to cheap with the rule they have now, otherwise they will be the strongest ones in the game.

Their vehicle rule needs to change so they can be properly adjusted.

Then their Reanimation Protocols is another problem, they dont work if they are wiped out, it needs to be like 7th were its just another save right away, like DR or FnP.

Fix those 2 problems and the army is good, but sadly... they are core rules of the army and i dont see GW changing them.

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Mon Dec 18 2017, 23:59

I'm not sure this is the right approach to the situation. If he didn't have fun playing you, telling him the internet disagrees with his assessment ("power-play") won't make him suddenly start enjoying himself.

I'd suggest trying to think of some things you can do to make sure your friend has fun. If playing games with you isn't fun for him, he may not want to keep doing it.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 19 2017, 08:11

Like what most people said, try and keep the friends you play with, even if it means toning down the list a little.

Against newbies/fluff lists Try and go for the 1 or 2 units rule. If you have taken a unit once or twice don't take it again but pick something different.

Lose a ravager and take some scourges.
Skip 2 razorwings, and maybe take some melee units as well?
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 19 2017, 09:10

thats all pretty good advice and yes i almost always try to win my games just my my tournaments more than my friend games but im just an extreme competetive person Sad and often i see the joy of games lies in winning it
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 19 2017, 09:36

Winning is fun but you can have some of the most fun game when your not winning but behind and you pull off some crazy thing.

The game that i had the most fun with we ended on turn 4 with no clear winner, a game that keeps you thinking and on your toes if more fun than winning by brute force.

EDIT Spelling. English is hard tongue

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 19 2017, 09:43

I think a major problem is that in addition to being a bottom tier army, the Necrons play straight into the Dark Eldar's strengths. They have small numbers of high point models, perfect targets for Darklight and Disintegration.
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 19 2017, 09:45

@amishprn86 wrote:
Winning is fun but you can have some of the most fun game when your not winning but behind and you pull off some crazy thing.

The game that i had the most fun with we needed on turn 4 with no clear winner, a game that keeps you thinking and on your toes if more fun than winning by brute force.

+1. love those games.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 19 2017, 21:51

I think that if you only have fun when you win, you're likely to have less fun overall. Finding ways to have fun, win or lose, is really just a way of hedging your bets.

I also think it is not fun to know that your opponent threw the game or intentionally handicapped themself. So maybe using the game as an opportunity to try units you haven't played before or themed or narrative lists?

Personally, I don't think winning is fun if I didn't have to work for it, and I think the best games are the ones that are decided on the table, not in the list-building stage. The game should be decided by players doing things, not just finding whose list was better.

But the most important thing has to be fun. Wanting to win is fine, and being competitive is fine, but you still have some responsibility for whether you opponent has fun. Wanting to win while not caring about your opponent having fun isn't being competitive, it's being a jerk.

(I'm not talking about you, Darkin; that's just my general philosophy about gaming. I hope some part of it is useful regarding your situation with your friend.)

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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 20 2017, 19:26

@Darkin wrote:
so my friend (Necron player) played his first game against my dark eldar....
he said this list would be power-play and that i should change it... He still accused me of power-playing

I think I see the problem here. If I just think about it a little it will come to me.

Balance is really hard to achieve with new players. Being his first game and all the problem is probably largely his. I have a fellow club player that plays a really nasty necron list with 3 C-tan shards, a bunch of scarabs, and doom scythes. It's a nasty list. More experience will help him, it's just gonna take a while to for him to acclimate. Plus he's playing an index army.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 20 2017, 20:31

so just to clarify it wasn't his FIRST GAME, he plays this game for 5 years, I do for 3 now it was his FIRST  GAME against MY DARK ELDAR.

I just  think he is the same as me, hating to lose games?
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 20 2017, 20:33

@mattblowers wrote:
@Darkin wrote:
so my friend  (Necron player) played his first game against my dark eldar....
he said this list would be power-play and that i  should change it...  He still accused me of power-playing

I think I see the problem here. If I just think about it a little it will come to me.

Balance is really hard to achieve with new players. Being his first game and all the problem is probably largely his. I have a fellow club player that plays a really nasty necron list with 3 C-tan shards, a bunch of scarabs, and doom scythes. It's a nasty list. More experience will help him, it's just gonna take a while to for him to acclimate. Plus he's playing an index army.

First, we play an Index army too. Second, I don't think he should play with weak choices, or purposely play bad. What he can do is 1: help his friend designing his list. 2: explaining during the game which units are dangerous for him and why. 3: Play with a lower point count. It will help him learning with the good mindset, instead of practicing against units that he'll never see again, when he'll play against other people. It will help the dark eldar player too, because he'll pratice to play with fewer points (something it happens when we suffer during the first round).
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 20 2017, 20:35

@Darkin wrote:
so just to clarify it wasn't his FIRST GAME, he plays this game for 5 years, I do for 3 now it was his FIRST  GAME against MY DARK ELDAR.

I just  think he is the same as me, hating to lose games?

If that's the case, just laugh it off and tell him to harden up. Twisted Evil

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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 14:06

@Darkin wrote:
so just to clarify it wasn't his FIRST GAME, he plays this game for 5 years, I do for 3 now it was his FIRST  GAME against MY DARK ELDAR.

I just  think he is the same as me, hating to lose games?

Well nobody LIKES to lose. If he's been playing 5 years and he's calling you a power player that should change your list, he needs a dose of big boy panties. When I get rolled, I don't automatically assume that there is something wrong with my opponents list or that it is OP. Agreeing on the type of game you want to play beforehand goes a long way in helping to eliminate the feels-badsies. I always think outloud when I'm playing my opponent as well. I'm not trying to win games with gotchas and it makes it fun for my opponent to see and understand what I am trying to do.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 16:56

But the thing is he IS playing a power list. His list is perhaps one of the best lists you can put together with Dark eldar.

I don't understand this mentality of "tell him to get hard."
If he's not having fun, you're not going to have someone to play against for long. Perhaps worse yet, you could get a reputation.
At my local I played lists that weren't tournament ready, but were still more powerful than the meta. I noticed that people were starting to shy away from me a bit. Now I put together lists that I think are fun and I'm able to find games much easier and people actually seek me out to play. What's more is even with the stupid lists I usually win, but now people attribute it to me as a player and not as a jerk.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 17:48

so for you, i am a jerk for playing the things that work?
that's kinda stupid no?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 18:21

@Darkin wrote:
so for you, i am a jerk for playing the things that work?
that's kinda stupid no?

Not at all, but there is a difference in power playing and having a fun game. Lists do matter, but player choices matters more.

We also dont know ANYTHING about him, just b.c he has been playing for many years doesnt means he likes harder comp games, he could just want o push models around and keep them on the table for many turns.

You gave us 0 insight to the person, you only told us that "Is this is power list?" and "My friend didnt have fun" we see it as a power list, but again you can have a strong list and still play down.

If you could give us some more insight that would be great. If your looking for us to say dont feel bad about your list or how you handle your friend... well thats not our place, thats up to you.

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