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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Beta Rules   Fri Dec 15 2017, 21:00

Here we go Faq and beta rules

to summarize characters cannot block other characters for closest model.  and every smite after first gets harder to cast.

Also FAQ schedule.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Fri Dec 15 2017, 22:32

Actually well thought corrections ? Not sold in a separate book for extra profit ? Not bad.

If they hired a competent team of playtesters, though, those rules would have been in the original rulebook.

But i guess the mentality of "release it in a broken state, than observe player behaviour and patch accordingly" has made it to the wargame business...

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Fri Dec 15 2017, 23:58

I think these are both fair rules...particularly as a group without access to defense in this phase.

I agree, Mppqlmd - seems like a short skip to figure out a decent wording for these rules.

If I played Grey Knights or 1K Sons, I would be super pissed about Smite.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 00:25

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
I think these are both fair rules...particularly as a group without access to defense in this phase.

I agree, Mppqlmd - seems like a short skip to figure out a decent wording for these rules.

If I played Grey Knights or 1K Sons, I would be super pissed about Smite.

Well, seeing as how these are 'beta' rules, it seems possible that, after some testing, the final version may provide some caveats for certain units.

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 00:32

@krayd wrote:
@SushiBoy013 wrote:
I think these are both fair rules...particularly as a group without access to defense in this phase.

I agree, Mppqlmd - seems like a short skip to figure out a decent wording for these rules.

If I played Grey Knights or 1K Sons, I would be super pissed about Smite.

Well, seeing as how these are 'beta' rules, it seems possible that, after some testing, the final version may provide some caveats for certain units.


Yep, that is an option.

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Britishgrotesque
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 07:42

I think they will be adjusting grey knight points/psychic powers during the march FAQ.

Probably introducing at least one more damaging psychic power and giving them a points reduction. You would hope....
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 10:37

Yeah some armies like GK, this just hurts (Their smite is already really bad) but it really helps AND hurts other like Tzeentch armies, yes spamming Hoorors wasnt fun but if you want to play full Tzeentch theres not many options.

The Character rules are great, now they just need to be able ignore Lock in combat" and i'll be happy.

I love characters and i like that they are more survivable now, but they for sure were to survivable. We saw it and see it in character full armies. IMO if it wasnt for Nids, Orks and CSM melee heavy armies Character spam would have won every tournament with the new CA rules, but even then we would have seen many of those armies. (Now that the beta rules are out we wont see this)

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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 12:03

And, there's now a designated email address to send the annual DarkCity rule suggestions letter too. Twisted Evil

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 18:19

People keep saying this hurts GK - but I call BS on that. They didn't win by smite spam and the damage reduction this rule has on them is minimal to zero. It's going to cost them 1-3 MW tops per turn... Assuming they cast nothing else. If you are losing games due to that then I don't know what to say.

GK still cast more successfully and deny more often, in fact this 'nerf' helps them more than hinders since they have never win games due to smite spam to begin with but have even less to fear from it now

1ksons and daemons have legitimate problems because they have no alternate powers where GK don't suffer that.

GK deserve a price drop not because of this change but because they are over priced in general.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 19:08

Quote :
It's going to cost them 1-3 MW tops per turn

Losing 1-3 pure damage per turn is... quite heavy.

Especially in a game where everything you don't kill starts firing back and killing your guys, the damage you lose on the first turns snowballs into your defeat.

It's definitly not the end of GK. They are not unplayable. But denying that this hurts GK is a little weird. They are less affected than Brimstone or GSC, but they still are nerfed.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 19:17

Well the problem is GK damage for smite is on 12" and 1D not 18 D3. GK already had problems and this is going to make it worst for them.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 19:26

@amishprn86 wrote:
Well the problem is GK damage for smite is on 12" and 1D not 18 D3. GK already had problems and this is going to make it worst for them.

That's the thing, though, isn't it. The Grey Knights did already have problems but they can be fixed without the army needing to spam smite.

Very happy about both of these changes.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sat Dec 16 2017, 19:39

@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Well the problem is GK damage for smite is on 12" and 1D not 18 D3. GK already had problems and this is going to make it worst for them.

That's the thing, though, isn't it. The Grey Knights did already have problems but they can be fixed without the army needing to spam smite.

Very happy about both of these changes.

But maybe part of the GK balance is to spam smite? The codex was made after the smite rules and they new smite spawn was a thing, just b.c some dont like it doesnt mean its not a viable play style and we also dont know what GW had intended for GK.


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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sun Dec 17 2017, 00:45

So a GK army loses 1-3 damage a turn... Every other psychic list looses 3-9 but in reality it's 4-12 (assuming d3's) since grey knights get +1 to cast so are more likely to get an extra cast off.

If 1-3 is bad, imagine how other armies feel! Add that to GK denying more often and having more goes at it, GK actually look like they come out ok. They are overpriced but this nerf actually looks like it helps them more than hinders

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Sun Dec 17 2017, 09:34

@Massaen wrote:
So a GK army loses 1-3 damage a turn... Every other psychic list looses 3-9 but in reality it's 4-12 (assuming d3's) since grey knights get +1 to cast so are more likely to get an extra cast off.

If 1-3 is bad, imagine how other armies feel! Add that to GK denying more often and having more goes at it, GK actually look like they come out ok. They are overpriced but this nerf actually looks like it helps them more than hinders

That is true, but when a codex is already as bad as some bad index's it hurts.

I like the change, i'm not saying its a bad change, just saying it effects different armies differently, for DE its a VERY GOOD change, for some that relay on hat damage to stay competitive, not so much.

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Beta Rules   Tue Dec 19 2017, 00:31

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Massaen wrote:
So a GK army loses 1-3 damage a turn... Every other psychic list looses 3-9 but in reality it's 4-12 (assuming d3's) since grey knights get +1 to cast so are more likely to get an extra cast off.

If 1-3 is bad, imagine how other armies feel! Add that to GK denying more often and having more goes at it, GK actually look like they come out ok. They are overpriced but this nerf actually looks like it helps them more than hinders

That is true, but when a codex is already as bad as some bad index's it hurts.

I like the change, i'm not saying its a bad change, just saying it effects different armies differently, for DE its a VERY GOOD change, for some that relay on hat damage to stay competitive, not so much.

Only upside for DE to be sure. This will definitely take a toll on some armies. It also demonstrates the need for GW to really put the effort seen in the Tyranid codex into the work they do across the board. No codexed army should be dependent on a single strategy.

For me, a good codex means the ability to mix-and-match units, traits, etc... so you're not pigeonholed. GKs aren't so much hindered by the altering of Smite, but by GWs inability to make them more robust to begin with. No army should be a one-trick pony.

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