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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 02:13

So, been thinking. There are some MUST HAVE special rules for the various sections of our army, along with some nice to have ones. Figured we may as well brainstorm them so we can be truly disappointed when the codex drops and doesn't have any of them.

So, some examples:

MUST HAVE:
Fleet (assault after advancing) for Wych Cults. We need this, and badly.

5+++/wound regain for Covens. They are supposed to be incredibly durable, but having everyone else catch up/overtake them on the wound front has really left them as pretty poor in that aspect, all things considered.

Assault out of open topped transports. Specifics can vary, but we need SOMETHING!


WANT:

Kabals get +1 to wound against infantry with splinter weapons.

Ravagers get roll twice take highest for damage against vehicles and monsters.

Faster transports. Let us at least keep pace with the craftworlds.
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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 04:38

I would like to see a couple of things for sure:

Further evolution of Power from Pain. Great mechanic that I think can simply be altered assist our army continue to be competitive

Types of poison that can be applied to splinter weaponry

Assault out of open topped transports for sure.

Here is a big one for me: compensation for not taking part in the Psychic phase at all (Crucible is paltry in comparison to just how powerful the phase is in 8th edition). Here is the great thing about Dark Eldar: they don't partake in the use of psychic abilities, and in turn have made major advancements in their technology and honed themselves physically (clearly, right?). GW doesn't seem to have an issue honoring the first component of that while continuing to maintain an unimaginative, under-powered, and all around disappointing approach to our weaponry.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 05:05

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
I would like to see a couple of things for sure:

Further evolution of Power from Pain. Great mechanic that I think can simply be altered assist our army continue to be competitive

Types of poison that can be applied to splinter weaponry

Assault out of open topped transports for sure.

Here is a big one for me: compensation for not taking part in the Psychic phase at all (Crucible is paltry in comparison to just how powerful the phase is in 8th edition). Here is the great thing about Dark Eldar: they don't partake in the use of psychic abilities, and in turn have made major advancements in their technology and honed themselves physically (clearly, right?). GW doesn't seem to have an issue honoring the first component of that while continuing to maintain an unimaginative, under-powered, and all around disappointing approach to our weaponry.

Agreed. We need more and better offense.
Back in 5th when we got poison Wraithlords had 3 wounds, and a healthy toughness 8. A squad with poison was a credible threat back then. Now days? Barely noticeable.

Ironically, the fastest army in the game has been standing still, and thus been overtaken.
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 11:41

I MUST HAVE Vect...! And then I MUST HAVE his ability to seize the initiative at 4+ and troll everyone with it...! Everything else is want... ^_^
P.s. I know I will probably get nothing... :/
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 11:48

@DevilDoll wrote:
I MUST HAVE Vect...! And then I MUST HAVE his ability to seize the initiative at 4+ and troll everyone with it...! Everything else is want... ^_^
P.s. I know I will probably get nothing... :/

Vect seizes the initiative on 2+. Turns out he had it the whole time...
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 12:03

Yeah my bad even better...!
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 12:11

I think transports need upping to 6/11 capacity, and auras should work from open topped transports, even if they limit it to affecting the transport itself and units contained within in it. Also, why the hell would troops just watch a unit charge into their transport and think "meh, they aren't charging ME so I'm not going to Overwatch them". Units in open topped transports should Overwatch. Then an ability to let combat units "countercharge". If their transport is charged they immediately disembark and engage.
I'd also like to see some form of improvement to splinter fire. It's kinda good for chipping wounds of high T targets, but they usually have decent armour too. It's not potent enough to thin hordes of low T troops either. I actually think a split profile could work. Still wound on 4s, but a RF2 profile with 0AP or a RF1 profile with - 2AP. A high fire infantry mode, but a lower fire rate with more punch for armoured targets.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 12:25

Must have :
- A clear role for HWB, HL, Shredder, SC
- A buff to every wych cult unit, and every Coven unit except wracks
- A clear rework of the HQ section

Want
- More HQs entry (Court of the Archon and Beastmaster becoming HQ would be nice)
- if i get all the above, i'm a happy Archon

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 12:30

Must Have:
- Archon: Marked for Death (replaces Overlord)
In the shooting phase, select an enemy unit. All friendly <KABAL> units targeting this unit may re-roll failed to-wound rolls.

- Raider: Aethersails (wargear)
A Raider may choose to omit all shooting attacks in order to add 6" to its movement characteristics.

- Raider/Venom: Command Quarters (wargear)
This transport may contain an additional HQ model that does not take up transport space.

Want:
- Lhamean: Shaimesh's Blessing
At the start of the game, select a friendly infantry <KABAL> unit. For the rest of the game, all splinter weapons and Agonizers will wound non-vehicles on a 3+.

- Grotesques: Rampage
For each lost wound, a Grotesque gains +1 to its attack characteristics.


With the rules above Kabals would have amazing force multipliers that work even for troops inside transports. It would certainly fix our problems with Splinter weapons, but also support other heavy shooting attacks (Lances).
The Raider/Venom upgrades are no-brainers and Rampage would be a great way to make Grotesques more worthwhile.

Apart from that, I think most our rules are fine. For the most part all we need is better wargear and lower points cost.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 12:52

Quote :
- Grotesques: Rampage
For each lost wound, a Grotesque gains +1 to its attack characteristics.

That would work well for a Talos, but considering you can't split wounds between grots from the same unit, this would generate a few low number of attacks, and for one model only per unit.

Quote :
- Archon: Marked for Death (replaces Overlord)
In the shooting phase, select an enemy unit. All friendly <KABAL> units targeting this unit may re-roll failed to-wound rolls.

Gimme gimme gimme !!



Also, i forgot to mention : Splinter Racks, which can be 2 versions
- Doubles the amount of shots coming from splinter weaponry from the raider
- Allows reroll to hit for splinter weaponry from the raider

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 13:36

My only must have is HQ's get Reavers, Skyboards, Wings.

But if talking about text rules? Then i want 3 PFP tables, 1 for Coven, Wych and Kanal

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Rodi Sikni
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 13:50

I think that all our army (or if you prefer, all except the covens) must have a rule like "Your opponent must subtract 1 from the hit rolls of any attacks that target this unit." This should be additional in the case of mandrakes, venoms, and flyers.

It's supposes that we are faster, more agile and with best reflexes that the other races. We have a lower armour than craftworlds to maximize it. With a rule like this, our venoms would have -2 in the shooting fase and a -1 on close combat, making the rapid fire of the splinter cannon more viable. And our infantry gain survival without modify toughness and Sv.

And the poison weapons should have more damage. There is snakes that can kill a human in 30 minuts, with a huge pain and incapacitating him. I'm sure that the DE poison experts could do it better. Maybe damage 2 or 1D3 except against vehicles.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 15:08

How about we try to keep this realistic.

-1 to hit the whole army is WAY over the top. May as well say I want my whole army to hit on 2's be wounded only on 6s and always go first.

Some of the above are quite viable and realistic in terms of game mechanics
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 15:12

@Silverglade wrote:
How about we try to keep this realistic.  

-1 to hit the whole army is WAY over the top.  May as well say I want my whole army to hit on 2's be wounded only on 6s and always go first.

Some of the above are quite viable and realistic in terms of game mechanics

Also, an unkillable force with mediocre hitting strength doesn't feel DE to me.

Right now we are a "very glass - no so cannon".
I'd rather stay "very glass", and become "very cannon", instead of becoming "not so glass - not so cannon".

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 15:57

@Silverglade wrote:
How about we try to keep this realistic.  

-1 to hit the whole army is WAY over the top.  May as well say I want my whole army to hit on 2's be wounded only on 6s and always go first.

Some of the above are quite viable and realistic in terms of game mechanics

Craftworlders, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines already have this rule in the form of the Alaitoc, Alpha Legion and Raven Guard faction traits.

A global -1 to hit is not only realistic but probably one of the most likely new things to appear in our Codex.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 16:08

@Burnage wrote:
@Silverglade wrote:
How about we try to keep this realistic.  

-1 to hit the whole army is WAY over the top.  May as well say I want my whole army to hit on 2's be wounded only on 6s and always go first.

Some of the above are quite viable and realistic in terms of game mechanics

Craftworlders, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines already have this rule in the form of the Alaitoc, Alpha Legion and Raven Guard faction traits.

A global -1 to hit is not only realistic but probably one of the most likely new things to appear in our Codex.

If anyone would get it i would think DA Ravenwing would

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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 16:44

4++ Jink! Yay! (Alternative army is DA)

I'd honestly like to just have a consistent theme for the army. We used to have speed and combat monsters for characters. It appears that recently it has shifted away from maximum speed, but having no negative for going fast. That ok I guess, but some how it needs to be more apparent.

Character transport would be nice, or the ability to bring special weapons in smaller squad sizes. Allow a dark lance in a five man Kabalite squad. Allow 3x Wych weapons in a five man wych squad. I would prefer that to additional character space.

Although I doubt we see five man lance squads anytime soon.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 17:13

@FuelDrop wrote:
@DevilDoll wrote:
I MUST HAVE Vect...! And then I MUST HAVE his ability to seize the initiative at 4+ and troll everyone with it...! Everything else is want... ^_^
P.s. I know I will probably get nothing... :/

Vect seizes the initiative on 2+. Turns out he had it the whole time...

I know this is a joke, but there is something to be said about balancing an army assuming it will always go first. I know other games have tried similar ideas.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 17:25

A change to the PfP table, I believe having multiple tables would just conflate to rules bloat, and would then lead to needing a table for the Mandrakes, and the Incubi, and what about Scourges?

So, my proposition; the table needs to suit both ranged and melee combatants.

Turn 1: Unencumbered Footwork, if a unit with this ability advances, then you may choose between allowing the unit to shoot as if it had only moved, or charge as if it had only moved.

Turn 2: Eager to Flense, same as Index, reroll advance and charge distances.

Turn 3: Heightened Senses, You may add 1 to all hit rolls made for a unit with this ability.

Turns 4 and 5 remain the same as the Index.

Inured to Suffering (x+) becomes its own rule, with non-Coven units getting a 6+, Coven and Characters getting a 5+ and Coven Characters getting a 4+.

Our open topped Vehicles need to grant Overwatch to the passengers, the ability to fire after it has Fallen Back (perhaps at a -1) and the ability to charge from it.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 17:28

No way we'd get better FNP than DG. But maybe 6+++ on non coven and 5+++ on coven could happen

That bit about vehicles would be cool.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 17:50

@Burnage wrote:
@Silverglade wrote:
How about we try to keep this realistic.  

-1 to hit the whole army is WAY over the top.  May as well say I want my whole army to hit on 2's be wounded only on 6s and always go first.

Some of the above are quite viable and realistic in terms of game mechanics

Craftworlders, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines already have this rule in the form of the Alaitoc, Alpha Legion and Raven Guard faction traits.

A global -1 to hit is not only realistic but probably one of the most likely new things to appear in our Codex.

They have it against attacks coming from over a certain distance. That's VERY different.

And, with that restriction, it's already completly nuts. Without restrictions it would be inconceivable !

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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 19:28

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Must have :
- A clear role for HWB, HL, Shredder, SC
In the years I have been playing Dark Eldar, mostly the first two haven't existed, but the Shredder has never been worth taking. I have hopes for the Splinter Cannon though Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 20:29

@FuelDrop wrote:
@DevilDoll wrote:
I MUST HAVE Vect...! And then I MUST HAVE his ability to seize the initiative at 4+ and troll everyone with it...! Everything else is want... ^_^
P.s. I know I will probably get nothing... :/

Vect seizes the initiative on 2+. Turns out he had it the whole time...

Amazing

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 21:45

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Quote :
- Grotesques: Rampage
For each lost wound, a Grotesque gains +1 to its attack characteristics.

That would work well for a Talos, but considering you can't split wounds between grots from the same unit, this would generate a few low number of attacks, and for one model only per unit.

Sounds reasonable. In any case, I'd find it awesome if Coven had units that get better as their profile degrades.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Must Have Rules.   Sat Dec 09 2017, 22:15

Maybe have the Talos Pain Engine have a profile that boosts the more it kills? Some kind of, I don't know, Power from Pain?
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