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 Playing against Astra Militarum

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Menosj
Slave
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PostSubject: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 03:26

Hello, I'm relatively new to the dark Eldar scene. I play against a lot of guard players and I have a buddy who list builds against me, he brings mass infantry with heavy weapons in each squad, he brings, 3 hydra, and a ton of mortars. It feels like an impossible struggle to beat a list like this. My list is 3 flyers 3 ravagers, a bunch of venoms with kabalites and a a group of scourges, I usually bring a ton of dark lance that is relatively useless because he brings mostly 1 wound infantry. It feels impossible to beat him as I am usually tabled with 2 turns. Since he builds his list to counter me I would like a list that counters him, what would you bring?
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 04:50

Mandrakes all day. Swap to dissies on your Ravagers/Flyers. Also, charge him.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 04:51

Ah, a classic friendly rivalry, I'd suggest a simple stab in the back bringing something melee oriented. If you dive into some of the older posts in the tactics section, you should be able to find a post talking about the efficiency of our models in terms of survivability and for killing. Currently, a shooty dark eldar list is very effective against Vehicles and Elites, Against a massed horde of 1W infantry, I think you'll find that melee will solve the trick for you.

I'd also suggest checking out some of Skari's battle reports, they aren't too long and offer some good insights into our army as a whole as he brings a pretty diverse list.

But back to melee, Beast Pack, Toughness boosted Grots, Incubi and anything wych cult. Even if they don't manage to kill everything, they should be able to tie up blobs long enough for the rest of your army to do its thing.

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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 07:27

Wyches seem to get a bad reputation, but throw them into some T3 infantry and they will commit wanton murder. +1A drug gives the best bang for buck.

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Dizzie
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 13:12

Stay away from splinter weapons for a start, not great against mass toughness 3.
Your best bet to deal with this is wracks with liquifiers for troops instead, they will put the hurt on his massed squads, then beast master squads and Mandrakes are great too.

Also how are you using the vehicles? are you closing the gap fast and locking his stuff down in HTH so he cant shoot?, our skimmers can retreat and shoot, so charging his squads, then fleeing in your own turn, shooting and finally getting back into HTH again, will stop his stuff from shooting entirely.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 14:55

Medsuae. Melt them all.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 15:47

@yellabelly wrote:
Wyches seem to get a bad reputation, but throw them into some T3 infantry and they will commit wanton murder. +1A drug gives the best bang for buck.

If only that were true! A wych with +1A kills 0.67 guardsman in the fight phase. That goes up slightly with a nearby Succubis (0.78) or with PfP from turn 3 (0.83) or both (0.97). So, in the best possible circumstances, ignoring overwatch and with an expensive but spectacularly awful HQ nearby to buff her, a wych kills just under 1 guardsman.

And there was much rejoicing!

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 16:05

A wych or wych unit?

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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 16:31

Well I certainly find it to be true.
I've been running a 9 man Wych unit in a raider with a succubus. You need two HQs for a battalion anyway.
The wyches produce just shy of 11 wounds in CC. That's turn 1 + 2, rising in turn 3. It's also ignoring the succubus attacks, splinter pistols and dark light grenades on the way in.
Wyches lack against tough or armoured foes, but hack through T3 low armour pretty well.
Edit - that's without any weapon upgrades too.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 18:07

and you'd have to account for them fighting in the enemy's turn as well.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 20:35

I would never take the Succubus with Wyches in a Raider. As of now, the only redeeming (sorta) quality of Wyches are their special weapons. And losing 2 Hydra Gauntlets by making a Wych unit of 9 is huge.

Mind you, Hydra Gauntlets approximately double the killing power of Wyches against GEQ. I would even take Bloodbrides if every Bloodbride could take her own pair of Hydra Gauntlets.

If you are keen on using Wyches, put 10 in a Raider, give the Succubus some Hypex and let her run after this Raider. Now if she only had a personal transport... like a Jetbike or a Skyboard.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Wed Dec 06 2017, 21:54

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I would never take the Succubus with Wyches in a Raider. As of now, the only redeeming (sorta) quality of Wyches are their special weapons. And losing 2 Hydra Gauntlets by making a Wych unit of 9 is huge.

Mind you, Hydra Gauntlets approximately double the killing power of Wyches against GEQ. I would even take Bloodbrides if every Bloodbride could take her own pair of Hydra Gauntlets.

If you are keen on using Wyches, put 10 in a Raider, give the Succubus some Hypex and let her run after this Raider. Now if she only had a personal transport... like a Jetbike or a Skyboard.

Or WWP your succubus when your wyches are ready to charge.
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Sess
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Thu Dec 07 2017, 02:21

@RedRegicide wrote:
Medsuae. Melt them all.

Medusae do seem pretty good... with chapter approved only 2 points more than a mandrake now and they get 4 shots compared to mandrakes 2.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Sat Dec 09 2017, 14:03

Actually, I just got an idea on how to run Succubus with 9 Wyches without losing out on wargear.

Take a squad of 5 Wyches, put a Succubus into the Raider and fill up the rest of the Raider with another squad of 4 Wyches.

This way you get 2 Hekatrix weapons and 2 Hydra Gauntlets instead of 3 Hydra Gauntlet and a Hekatrix weapon (with is about equal) .
Get the +1 attack drug for the 5 Wych squad (Agonizer Hekatrix) and the +1S drug for the 4 Wych squad (Power Sword Hekatrix, which will hit GEQ on a 3+).

For the Succubus I'd probably take the +1T drug.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Sat Dec 09 2017, 17:22

In order to take a squad of 4 Wyches you need to use an auxiliary detachment, therefore costing you a CP.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Sat Dec 09 2017, 17:25

Not really worth it. Currently My Succbus runs or tags along with grot raider or court venom

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Mon Dec 11 2017, 14:28

You can't field an understrenght unit if you already field another unit
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Koldan
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Tue Dec 12 2017, 09:57

Back to the question, a different suggestion:

@Menosj wrote:
a bunch of venoms with kabalites
Is he targeting with his heavy guns the other vehicles, and with his flashlights the venoms? Either use a haemonculus with them or switch to raiders. Now he has no good targets for normal infantrymen. T6 is a sweet spot vs mass infantry AM. This may keep your transporters alive alittle longer.

Take his hydras out asap. And try to minimize the enemy units, that can see your weaker units. Don't let your infantry out of your transporters in plain sight of his whole army, if possible choose places, where not all his flashlights can directly be pointed at them. Or keep them longer in the transporter, keeping wyches in a raider and let them just throw grenades and shoot their pistols and wait for a better moment is a good move, if it garantees that his flashlights can only be pumped into T6 targets, instead of the wyches in his turn.
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UmJamLam
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Fri Jan 05 2018, 16:52

I would recommend taking lots of venoms and razorwing jetfighters and then aggressively pushing forward. Having all those -1 hit modifiers will neuter his mortars a bit and you can assault the vehicles and infantry squads with your venoms once you get close enough. You'll probably kill a few guardsmen with the venom in cc and rarely take a wound back, then he has to either fall back and lose the utility of that unit or keep you locked in combat, then you can fall back and still fire on your turn cause of fly.
The RJF can be a pretty decent infantry killer if you take desintegrators and a splinter cannon, combined with shatterfield missles it can do a number on infantry squads.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against Astra Militarum   Mon Jan 08 2018, 04:27

One slight issue with locking guard in melee, their order "get back in the fight" lets them shoot even after falling back from combat, so that's not really a guarantee of keeping them held up. That's why I'd consider wytches, since yeah maybe they are not as good as they should be at killing guardsmen, but they will hold them up at least.

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