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 Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units

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@miral
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PostSubject: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sat Dec 02 2017, 10:29

Hi,

I wondered how to correctly use the new stratagem. Do I just pay points before setting up at all and then am allowed to select units whenever I like? How do you handle it or has there been a FAQ ?
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sat Dec 02 2017, 10:46

I can't see why you'd have to pay up front and declare the intention of deepstriking to your opponent. As with all stratagems, you pay your CPs when you use it.

When you want to deploy unit 1 in deepstrike, just say you are using the stratagem and pay 1 CP.

If/When you decide to put a 2nd unit in deepstrike using the stratagem, pay the additional 2 CPs.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Dec 03 2017, 14:18

A friend of mine and I agreed that I would declare when using it, and then I "deploy" each unit into reserve separately.
So similar to what yellabelly says, except that I would pay the 2 CP all at once.

But I'll give yellabelly's suggestion some thought too, as I think there is some merit to that as well.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Dec 03 2017, 16:54

I'd agree with the others, Since you technically deploy each unit 1 at a time, when you get to the unit you are using the Webay Portal Stratagem on, you use the stratagem, deploy into reserves, move onto the next unit until you're out of units to deploy.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 02:07

Can you deploy a character for 1 CP with a Unit 2 CP total 3CP?
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 06:19

@DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ wrote:
Can you deploy a character for 1 CP with a Unit 2 CP total 3CP?

yes

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 10:45

Just to throw a spanner in the work (I actually sent an FAQ email about this a few weeks ago), I;ve heard it argued that because you're deploying two units together via a Stratagem, it actually counts as one drop/deployment choice, because you're paying the cost in one go.

I was very wary on it, but they argued it fairly reasonably at the time.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 10:58

I'd have a problem with anyone arguing that. You are using a stratagem to set up one or two units into the webway. There's nothing to suggest that this in some way merges them into a single 'drop' for purposes of deployment and I'm struggling to see how that argument could be made.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 14:33

You use the stratagem during the deployment, not during the game. You pay 1CP/3CP at once to put 1/2 units in a special deepstrike reserve. After that, it follow any normal rules. The point is, you pay the CP at the beginning of the game.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 19:28

Would it work that you spend the points and declare units A and B have the option of using Webway and from that point you declare what they are doing? Does using the stratagem just give the units a special ability, but doesn't actually place them/drop them/set them up?

IE:
Use stratagem
Setup unit A in webway
Setup unit C
Setup unit B in webway
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 20:37

I think'd you'd have to decide both units then and there. So yes, I like your idea that for all intents and purposes those units now have the special ability, however, i do think you have to decide right then and there which units are getting the ability, you can't decide after your opponent deploys another unit, etc. I'm not sure though, of when you would have to declare that you are using the stratagem, when it comes up for the unit or before you start deploying.

The problem I think we're having is that this stratagem can be seen as being similar to other unit's deepstrike rules along with being similar to Transport rules.

Does a Tantalus with Succubus and 3 squads of 5 wyches count as 1 drop or 4?

Similar to that, since the stratagem is acting as a pseudo transport for the units being put into the webway, does the 3CP option count as 1 or 2 drops? Or should the stratagem be treated as that unit getting the special ability?

The argument that I think can be made is, since the two reserved units are both in "separate" webway portals, aka, they don't have to drop from at the same time or place, I personally think they should be treated as 2 separate drops. I don't know how anyone else plays, and I haven't been to a tourney yet, but whenever I play with friends, we always determine which units are going into transports and before deploying, figure out how many drops we're going to have, based on that.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Fri Jan 12 2018, 20:47

@Barrywise wrote:
I think'd you'd have to decide both units then and there. So yes, I like your idea that for all intents and purposes those units now have the special ability, however, i do think you have to decide right then and there which units are getting the ability, you can't decide after your opponent deploys another unit, etc. I'm not sure though, of when you would have to declare that you are using the stratagem, when it comes up for the unit or before you start deploying.

The problem I think we're having is that this stratagem can be seen as being similar to other unit's deepstrike rules along with being similar to Transport rules.

Does a Tantalus with Succubus and 3 squads of 5 wyches count as 1 drop or 4?

Similar to that, since the stratagem is acting as a pseudo transport for the units being put into the webway, does the 3CP option count as 1 or 2 drops? Or should the stratagem be treated as that unit getting the special ability?

The argument that I think can be made is, since the two reserved units are both in "separate" webway portals, aka, they don't have to drop from at the same time or place, I personally think they should be treated as 2 separate drops. I don't know how anyone else plays, and I haven't been to a tourney yet, but whenever I play with friends, we always determine which units are going into transports and before deploying, figure out how many drops we're going to have, based on that.

They don't say you must use the stratagem at the beginning of the deployment phase. So, anytime during the deployment, you can decide to use the stratagem or not. I suggest you keep the units you want to WWP to the end of the deployment, so your enemy doesn't know which unit you'll WWP.
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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sat Jan 13 2018, 22:01

The phrasing here is really important.  Here is the pertinent part of the stratagem, emphasis mine:
"If you spend 1 CP, you can set up one DRUKHARI INFANTRY, BIKER or BEASTS unit from your army in the webway instead of placing it on the battlefield.   If you spend 3 CPs, you can set up two such units in the webway instead."

Instead means that the stratagem does not deploy the units for you.  You still have to deploy them one at a time as usual, and you have to use the stratagem before deploying anything in the webway.  It also doesn't say you have to decide which units you're going to deploy into the webway when you use the stratagem, so you make that determination as you deploy each unit.

This also means that you don't have to use the stratagem before deploying.  I could deploy a pack of deep striking mandrakes, than a raider, then use the stratagem, then deploy some incubi in the webway.

Fun trick: Have a CW unit that you put in the webway, and have a DE unit in the webway.  Two units, but two different stratagems so you pay 2 CP rather than 3.  :-)

Edit: Or webway a solitaire, and watch your opponent crap themselves. :-p

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Jan 14 2018, 08:41

A WWP Solitaire isnt scary at all, its actually better for them. As a Quins player you want to WWP Troupes or a Shadowseer (or both), never a Solitaire lol, you cant Blitz if you WWP him, you might fail your charge, you dont get to move over terrain and models at something like (with charge) 30" without using a Shadowseer and getting your 10 attacks instead of 8.


On topic, yes, you must choose to use it during deployment and must choose 1 or 2, but you can also choose the order and what you put in when deploying so your opponent doesnt know,

BUT I prefer to place all my DSing 1st, so i know where his Long range Weapons are so i can use LoS terrain for my Ravagers, raiders, venoms etc... for me placing things in the sky/wwp/etc... (DSing) 1st is very important.

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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Jan 14 2018, 19:18

@amishprn86 wrote:
A WWP Solitaire isnt scary at all, its actually better for them. As a Quins player you want to WWP Troupes or a Shadowseer (or both), never a Solitaire lol, you cant Blitz if you WWP him, you might fail your charge, you dont get to move over terrain and models at something like (with charge) 30" without using a Shadowseer and getting your 10 attacks instead of 8.

After checking the rule, you're right. Which really defangs WWP as a strategy for quins. Without the re-roll charge bonus from PfP, you've got lower odds of making the charge and likely have to spend a second CP on a re-roll. Maybe if you're playing Ynarri so you don't get Rising Crescendo?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Jan 14 2018, 19:20

A quins army the WWP is great, you spend the 3CP, do a 12 man unit of Troupes with a Shadowseer, the Shadowseer lets them move again after DSing and now you have 12 Troupes literally anywhere you want.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Jan 14 2018, 21:29

@amishprn86 wrote:
A quins army the WWP is great, you spend the 3CP, do a 12 man unit of Troupes with a Shadowseer, the Shadowseer lets them move again after DSing and now you have 12 Troupes literally anywhere you want.

And one Shadowseer looking awfully lonely Very Happy

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Protal Stratagem - setting up two units   Sun Jan 14 2018, 21:47

lol, no one will go after him when there is 12 troupes on top of you Twisted Evil Especially when they are Ynnari!

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