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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 17:36

By a quick show of hands, who here EXPECTED chapter approved to buff our court of the arcon models via a point decrease?

No one?

really?

yeah, me either. Like most of you, I was HOPING that our Reavers, Venoms, Raiders, Wych's, Grots, Talos, Cronos, Voidraven, Hellions, and beasts would be fixed by a combination of point decreases and rule tweaks.

But no. We got a warlord trait that is made for a HTH warlord, but our HTH warlord cannot take it.
Our HTH warlord got a trait that she cannot even use. Let that sink in for a second. SHE CANNOT EVEN USE IT.
Our stratagem is a copy/paste of another armies stratagem with the word "beasts" thrown in. Not saying it is bad, but what I am saying is that zero thought and effort went into it. ZERO.
Harlequins got a stratagem that was geared and designed for them, and them alone. Why is that? Why did they get some effort and we got nada?

There are three possible reasons.

reason 1- The codex is going to be coming out in January or early february. There is no reason to put a lot of thought, point decreases and rule changes into a book when it will become invalid in a month or so.
This sounds awesome, but in reality this is not a good thing. If the book was coming out soon, they would have a direction they are taking us. The few things we got would lay a foundation of splintering our army into three factions, where intermingling does not occur without penalty.
If the book was coming out soon, they would not throw a useless warlord trait out there, they would nab one from the dex. UNLESS they DID nab the Wych trait from the dex, which should cause all DE players to facepalm. If they put out such craptastic rules when the dex is already at the printers or in final writing stages, it DOES NOT BODE WELL for us or our army. It shows at best a basic lack of understanding of DE synergy, and at worst a complete apathy for the entire army.
This should literally worry us that if the dex is nearly out, THIS tripe is what they are feeding us!

reason 2- The codex will not be out until last. The Dex is so far off on the horizon that they have not had the time or effort to apply any thought or planning into our army. They needed to throw us a bone to keep us quiet, so they slapped a used stratagem and some warlord traits, stole a relic from previous editions, picked units no one ever uses to decrease points and called it a day.
THIS is the only reason of the three that makes sense. THIS, as sad as it is to say and hear, THIS is the reason we all need to hope is true, because the other two are so bad it is laughable. Our codex will get the love and attention it so desperately needs, but not for a long long time. We just need to wait it out.

reason 3- Why change what is not broken?
GW feels that the Drukari are so well balanced and has a potential to be so over the top, there really is no tweaking needed. GW is fearful that giving us the webway portal will put us over the top, so they gave it to us in chapter approved in case they need to take it from us in the real dex. Our models are priced on point except for the court, our traits are fair and just, and we need no real or further improvement.

if this is the case, I hope a wild Aids-Monkey gets loose in their corporate offices and starts biting people in the face. If this is the case, our army is going to be beyond useless.

So there you go.. frightening and sad all at the same time. And before SOME of you start crying that I am just being pessimistic, go back and reread Chapter Approved, and try to remember what you HOPED it would be compared to what you actually got.


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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 17:53

Don't we already have like 3 or 4 threads bitching about chapter approved?

Anyway, as I understood it Chapter Approved was meant to be for game and rules adjustments, plus adjustments to armies that already had a codex. Most of the other non-codex armies didn't get meaningful/sensible changes either, and do you really think we're worse off than they are?

Besides, the webway portal stratagem does address one of our big problems, in that our melee units are too squishy to run up the field, thus 100% of the time require a transport tax. I think it's a good stopgap, because it's not like we have anything to spend CP on anyway other than Lance damage rerolls.

This forum isn't your emotional tampon, calm the frak down.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 17:59

Lol wow.
Still stinging the loss from Saturday or something? This forum IS to vent, plan, strategize and yes, even complain. If you read (and could comprehend) what I wrote, it was not all doom and gloom.

I wonder if you could see the hypocrisy in what you wrote?

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:02

Quote :
Besides, the webway portal stratagem does address one of our big problems, in that our melee units are too squishy to run up the field, thus 100% of the time require a transport tax. I think it's a good stopgap, because it's not like we have anything to spend CP on anyway other than Lance damage rerolls.

Our melee units ? Why are you using a plural there ? Got anything in mind other than incubi ?

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:11

Grots aren't bad, just not the power houses of 7th edition.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:19

All 3 of your reasons were laced with negativity.

1 - "This should literally worry us that if the dex is nearly out, THIS tripe is what they are feeding us!"

2 - "They needed to throw us a bone to keep us quiet, so they slapped a used stratagem and some warlord traits, stole a relic from previous editions, picked units no one ever uses to decrease points and called it a day."

3 - "if this is the case, I hope a wild Aids-Monkey gets loose in their corporate offices and starts biting people in the face. If this is the case, our army is going to be beyond useless."

Sure, venting, strategizing, and planning can all be done on a public forum. But you only did one of those. Which is fine, but like I said there are already at least 3 other threads focused on this topic. And there's a right and wrong way to go about it. It's usually best to try and act like an adult, even if you're not one.

By the way, you got upset about the first and last sentences in my reply, but there were a bunch in the middle you chose to ignore.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:21

@Mppqlmd wrote:

Our melee units ? Why are you using a plural there ? Got anything in mind other than incubi ?

I didn't say GOOD melee units, I just said melee units haha. I assume some of that will get fixed in the 'dex since as I understand it GW did acknowledge the letter that y'all wrote up here, and I'd venture a guess some of the shortcomings of melee units were in there.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:56

Well. It can be reason 1. The codex will be soon released and if they give us too much goodies, it will kill the attactiveness of the codex. So, they give us crap for now, and the good things will be coming soon.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 19:27

See, if 1 is true, we're still going to be waiting a long time for our Dex. DA, Daemons, and BA will get us to mid-January, assuming 2 a month. After that, Tau and Necrons will be next, as they got..basically nothing from GW, and it's been hinted that's for a reason. So Mid-February is the earliest we'll even have a chance. While one data point hardly makes a rule, Eldar and Tyranids were released in a pair, so it's possible that we see a pair of Imperium dexes hit the shelves...certainly they wouldn't have us before Space Wolves, would they?

Essentially, we will have to wait for three and a half months minimum, with a likelyhood of being closer to Mid-March to May.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 21:08

@TheBaconPope wrote:
See, if 1 is true, we're still going to be waiting a long time for our Dex. DA, Daemons, and BA will get us to mid-January, assuming 2 a month. After that, Tau and Necrons will be next, as they got..basically nothing from GW, and it's been hinted that's for a reason. So Mid-February is the earliest we'll even have a chance. While one data point hardly makes a rule, Eldar and Tyranids were released in a pair, so it's possible that we see a pair of Imperium dexes hit the shelves...certainly they wouldn't have us before Space Wolves, would they?

Essentially, we will have to wait for three and a half months minimum, with a likelyhood of being closer to Mid-March to May.

I'm sure they're using the time to expand our model range and give us back our Wings/Jetbike HQ options. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 22:10

On the issue of the succubus' trait, If you look at it a different way and instead see it as this was a slight oversight after a rule change in the book they pulled it from then it makes sense.

If you look at the Nid book, all the reroll 1's to hit auras were replaced by +1 to hits auras. If you do the same for our succubus then the whole thing works.

Still don't forgive the separation of abilities though... (unless we get 3times as many in our book, then maybe, but only maybe)
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 22:51

@The Shredder wrote:
@TheBaconPope wrote:
See, if 1 is true, we're still going to be waiting a long time for our Dex. DA, Daemons, and BA will get us to mid-January, assuming 2 a month. After that, Tau and Necrons will be next, as they got..basically nothing from GW, and it's been hinted that's for a reason. So Mid-February is the earliest we'll even have a chance. While one data point hardly makes a rule, Eldar and Tyranids were released in a pair, so it's possible that we see a pair of Imperium dexes hit the shelves...certainly they wouldn't have us before Space Wolves, would they?

Essentially, we will have to wait for three and a half months minimum, with a likelyhood of being closer to Mid-March to May.

I'm sure they're using the time to expand our model range and give us back our Wings/Jetbike HQ options. Rolling Eyes

They need time to cast all the new models and HQ they prepared just for us.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Tue Nov 28 2017, 23:12

Um.. Voidbombers are amazing lol, they dont need to be changed, i sstopped reading after that Razz All my lists has mine in them

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Wed Nov 29 2017, 12:42

@amishprn86 wrote:
Um.. Voidbombers are amazing lol, they dont need to be changed, i sstopped reading after that  Razz  All my lists has mine in them

In agreement here, Voidravens are very well priced IMO and I have three of the beautiful beasts. It's also good to see someone who has similar views to me @Chippen.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Wed Nov 29 2017, 12:52

@URIEN wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Um.. Voidbombers are amazing lol, they dont need to be changed, i sstopped reading after that  Razz  All my lists has mine in them

In agreement here, Voidravens are very well priced IMO and I have three of the beautiful beasts. It's also good to see someone who has similar views to me @Chippen.

I love the Voidraven's look, and if I were expecting to vs entrenched heavy infantry it would be my go to weapon thanks to mortal wounds and high AP dakka.

Really, its only flaws are the bomb being one use only and a limited though valuable niche. And its price tag in both RL dollars and points, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Wed Nov 29 2017, 14:07

I think the Voidraven is priced to high for what it can do. The mine is decent, but one use only is too much of a handicap. It can do a total of three mortal wounds to a demon prince. If they made the mine usable every turn it would not be overpowered, and then you can keep the points the same as they are now.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Wed Nov 29 2017, 15:22

I personally like the Voidraven. There's no way in hell that those missiles are worth 25 points, however

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Wed Nov 29 2017, 15:27

I do think the voidbomber is slightly on the high end of the point cost and would like a bomb usable more then once, but giving it each turn would be a bit much in my mind.
I do think it could do with a boost but it is nowhere near as overpriced as some other units. And as mentioned it still really fills a niche, I just hate the rl moneycost.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Wed Nov 29 2017, 18:52

I only said it b.c Voibomber compare to Reavers, Hellions, Heat Lances, Talos, Grots, and Shredders.

The bomber is isnt on those things level of bad, i mean Reavers, Shredders, Heat Lances and Talos are the worst things in DE and a couple of them are almost the worth in the game.

By putting the Bomber together with those i feel your hurting your point lol.


About your 3 reasons? They have said it in the past MANY times that they work work better on things they are passionate about, but with insight from Andy Chambers himself! WOOT! we see it can be a fight, or they are made to make something they dont want to.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/7decnl/im_andy_chambers_ask_me_anything/


Question:
 

   

Answer:
 

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Thu Nov 30 2017, 00:55

I think that the lack of changes in Chapter approves does mean we'll be coming out soon. I think that your interpretation is wrong, though. They'll likely did pull all of these traits from the codex and that's why the Succubus can't use her own trait - it means either the archite glaive has changed, or the succubus adds +1 to hit rather than re-roll 1's.
We got virtually no changes just like Tau and Necrons. A lot of the remaining index armies did get a few, eg Genestealers, Harlequins, Space Wolves all got a decent number of adjustments. To me, that means we can expect to be released in the same block of 3 as Necrons and Tau.
Call me a dreamer, call me an idealist, but I'm calling it now. We'll be the third of those 3.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Thu Nov 30 2017, 02:28

I dunno. I'm hopeful, but I don't think we can really infer anything about release order from what we got in Chapter Approved.

I'll just be happy if we get the Codex before June.
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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Thu Nov 30 2017, 02:37

@Burnage wrote:
I dunno. I'm hopeful, but I don't think we can really infer anything about release order from what we got in Chapter Approved.

Agree with that

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Thu Nov 30 2017, 12:18

Back onto the Voidraven, the downfall for it IMO is when dropping the mine onto monsters/ vehicles. Talos's and Cronos's are 2 of the very few monster/ vehicle units that remain a unit. Thus when targeting either or it fails to perform as you're wasting the mine IMO. That's the only thing that needs slightly adjusting IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Thu Nov 30 2017, 19:21

@URIEN wrote:
Back onto the Voidraven, the downfall for it IMO is when dropping the mine onto monsters/ vehicles. Talos's and Cronos's are 2 of the very few monster/ vehicle units that remain a unit. Thus when targeting either or it fails to perform as you're wasting the mine IMO. That's the only thing that needs slightly adjusting IMO.  

Guard, SM and Eldar acyually have squads, there is just no reason to take them in squads anymore, or those units are just slightly less viable than another option in the books.

All walkers, Many Tanks, Some skimmers; (Land Speeders/Vypers/War Walkers, Wyverns for example).

A Mine on 3 Wyverns is actually really strong, bomb them and then shoot them will for sure kill 1 and cripple the other enough to make it useless.

The man reason for squads is less drops, you may find them used more so in the future after more codex's comes out.

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PostSubject: Re: What Chapter Approved Foreshadows.   Thu Nov 30 2017, 19:30

No. A mine can only drop on one wyvern, as they are counted as separate units from the second they are deployed. Same with all vehicle squadrons.
The mine is near useless against monsters and vehicles. rare exceptions (a unit of talos for example) stand out, so the mine is best used on... other Dark eldar. Go Figure.

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