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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 15:05

Got pretty much what we were told.


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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 17:16

Basically. Relic is nice, but not enough to convince me to take our HQs. Blood Dancer is good on Leilith, Regenerist is okay, I guess, on Haemys, last WT is pretty crap. Stradegem is nice, but is hindered by two Max units, exclusion of vehicles and monsters, and a high cost, so overall pretty eh.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 17:32

A Splinter Pistol Haemonculus seems like a pretty good Warlord candidate with these - +D3 wounds per turn and additional healing if they kill something is going to make them pretty tough to get rid of.

Still a bit baffled that Blood Dancer is useless until turn 3 for Succubi using the only weapon that they have to take.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 17:34

Quote :
A Splinter Pistol Haemonculus seems like a pretty good Warlord candidate with these - +D3 wounds per turn and additional healing if they kill something is going to make them pretty tough to get rid of.

There's a good point. Electrocorrosive whip, Parasites Kiss, Warlord Trait, and DS will make for a risky, but astute character hunter.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 18:05

Has anybody noticed we got a way to get an almost unkillable archon?
Sslyths can take the parasite's kiss!
A regenerating bodyguard!
Shame the archon is still meh...
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 19:57

Urien Rakarth with that warlord trait is now even more capable of holding up against a horde of Guardsmen or Hormagaunts.

Say 30 Hormagaunts vs Urien:
30 attacks × 7/12 hits × 7/36 wound × 1/4 unsaved × 5/6 failed FNP = 0.71 damage

Or 20 Guardsmen with Lasguns and First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire
80 shots × 1/2 hit × 1/6 wound × 1/4 unsaved × 5/6 failed FNP = 1.39 damage

Easily able to heal through that feeble damage output

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 20:53

Even without the stinger pistol and just the warlord trait ... With a combo like that I expect everyone who doesn't play the true kin is going to scream that it's broken, also the hatred eternal can be taken on any of the court ... And Drazhar ... So not entirely useless but definitely not that great on our archon
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 21:52

I would have preferred a straight re-roll to wound as Hatred Eternal. It could have helped the Archon's low strength big time.

Overall, I think what we got was good, but nothing spectacular. I do like what we got as everything sounds useful in one way or another. It does show that GW understands our fluff, but I am not certain if they get our playstyle.

Of course, we all were hoping for something that had given us a more competitive edge. At least not everything is doomed yet, as some make it out to be.

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:45

Oh Drazhar. Oh oh drazhar!
Did drazhar just become the Cc fiend we expect of him?
4 attacks. (6 dual blades). 5+ is 3hits. Wounds of a 6+ give an additional attack, which can proc 3 extra attacks on a 5+ to hit. On turn 1. Turn 3 4+ to hit procs  3!

Edit: numbers to follow
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:47

@LordSplata wrote:
Oh Drazhar. Oh oh drazhar!
Did drazhar just become the Cc fiend we expect of him?
4 attacks. (6 dual blades). 5+ is 3hits. Wounds of a 6+ give an additional attack, which can proc 3 extra attacks on a 5+ to hit. On turn 1. Turn 3 4+ to hit procs  3!

Nope. Wych Cult only. He can get some reroll 1's though!
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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 02:23

@FuelDrop wrote:
@LordSplata wrote:
Oh Drazhar. Oh oh drazhar!
Did drazhar just become the Cc fiend we expect of him?
4 attacks. (6 dual blades). 5+ is 3hits. Wounds of a 6+ give an additional attack, which can proc 3 extra attacks on a 5+ to hit. On turn 1. Turn 3 4+ to hit procs  3!

Nope. Wych Cult only. He can get some reroll 1's though!

Lol is it time to collectively begin fretting over the additional fracturing of our army into Kabal/Cult/Coven? I'll be in the corner super depressed.

honestly though, loading Urien down may not be a bad idea.

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 03:26

Oh,I didn't read the text above. That shoots down my plans.
Back to your box drazhar
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 03:47

I am honestly impressed at how bad some of our HQs have managed to be...
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 03:53

Quote :
I am honestly impressed at how bad some of our HQs have managed to be...

Drazhar makes a pretty solid contender for, at the very least, the worst named HQ in the game. The Archon, hands down, is the worst buff HQ.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 04:13

I vote worst in class for succubus. A melee monster with bad attacks, bad weapon option, and a bad buff while having at best middling survivability.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 06:41

I would not say the succubus has bad weapon options,
Her glaive is not great but quite ok in my mind, it is just that special rules like bonusses on 6+ to hit do not proc anymore. The other weapon options are quite bad I agree with that.

Her buff is not great, but also not that bad in my mind (Yes I know many others have better buffs, but I still think it is quite ok).
The problem is she should have been a combat monster, but she just misses the number of attacks she should have for a base s3 combat monster. Double her attacks and she would be fine. Then it might also be a choice between the warlord trait and having a glaive for now the glaive is the only option.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 07:37

@|Meavar wrote:
I would not say the succubus has bad weapon options,
Her glaive is not great but quite ok in my mind, it is just that special rules like bonusses on 6+ to hit do not proc anymore. The other weapon options are quite bad I agree with that.

Her buff is not great, but also not that bad in my mind (Yes I know many others have better buffs, but I still think it is quite ok).
The problem is she should have been a combat monster, but she just misses the number of attacks she should have for a base s3 combat monster. Double her attacks and she would be fine. Then it might also be a choice between the warlord trait and having a glaive for now the glaive is the only option.

There is a reason I said she is "Worst in class" rather than worst. Look at other combat monsters on her level. The Troupe Master, the Exalted Champion, ect. Better Auras, wider arsenals with more versatile weapons, more or stronger attacks... as a melee monster, the Succubus is seriously lacking compared to her competition.
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 08:32

The restrictions are truely terrible. No other army has to deal with this at a warlord trait level, even if a trait seems hive tyranty a genestealer can take it. I don't get why we can't put these abilities on the hq option we choose.

Just make it geared towards a style and that hq does that style best, so it promotes using it in that fashion. It's ridiculous.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 08:39

@LordSplata wrote:
The restrictions are truely terrible. No other army has to deal with this at a warlord trait level, even if a trait seems hive tyranty a genestealer can take it. I don't get why we can't put these abilities on the hq option we choose.

Just make it geared towards a style and that hq does that style best, so it promotes using it in that fashion. It's ridiculous.

Honestly, if they copy the 7th edition Harlequin model (3 shared traits, then 3 individual subfaction traits) for warlord traits they could do far worse. Give Drazhar a unique warlord trait that is insanely op, like letting him pull a Khorn beserker trick and fight twice in the fight phase (or make that his Incubi only aura. Fight twice aura, even limited to one unit, would be super epic!).
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 09:24

I'm still struggling to get over the hilarity of the wych cult warlord trait. Sadly, I don't think GW meant it as a joke.

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Britishgrotesque
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:27

I think think gw won't force us to split detachments, but it is fluffy for our succubus to be with wyches and for archons to keep his kabal close.

As long as the army can still be played as all 3 working together, I think it can work really well. They won't split one of its most niche full armies into 3 smaller armies more niche, it would mean less sales, and not make any sense fluff wise, or what the community wants.
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Thu Nov 30 2017, 01:29

I'm ever hopeful and optimistic all the new dexes they have released have been pretty on point for the most part.
It also looks like to me that most of the units that have had decent points changes in chapter approved have already got a new Dec.
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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Thu Nov 30 2017, 02:23

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
I'm ever hopeful and optimistic all the new dexes they have released have been pretty on point for the most part.
It also looks like to me that most of the units that have had decent points changes in chapter approved have already got a new Dec.

Not everyone can be a winner. "Winner", of course meaning "competitive"...I'm not looking for OP, as a matter of fact, I would hate that. I love the challenge that comes with playing Dark Eldar...that said, GW has demonstrated time and time again that they can be super sloppy. Case in point: Our weaponry and our HQs.

I just want a competitive army, and I hope GW is willing to do what is necessary to make that the case.

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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Dec 04 2017, 17:48

@FuelDrop wrote:
@|Meavar wrote:
I would not say the succubus has bad weapon options,
Her glaive is not great but quite ok in my mind, it is just that special rules like bonusses on 6+ to hit do not proc anymore. The other weapon options are quite bad I agree with that.

Her buff is not great, but also not that bad in my mind (Yes I know many others have better buffs, but I still think it is quite ok).
The problem is she should have been a combat monster, but she just misses the number of attacks she should have for a base s3 combat monster. Double her attacks and she would be fine. Then it might also be a choice between the warlord trait and having a glaive for now the glaive is the only option.

There is a reason I said she is "Worst in class" rather than worst. Look at other combat monsters on her level. The Troupe Master, the Exalted Champion, ect. Better Auras, wider arsenals with more versatile weapons, more or stronger attacks... as a melee monster, the Succubus is seriously lacking compared to her competition.

But what about points cost? I too, would prefer to pay more for better buffs and combat potential that matches the fluff (which I always interpreted as Succubi being able to shred Chapter Masters but maybe I'm biased), but is the Succubi bad for her points? If not, then she's not a bad option. Also, there is now all the more reason to put +1 WS on Succubi with the warlord trait. On turn 1 even with a glaive she can still hit on 6s and on turn 3 that goes up to 5+. 2 bonus hits on a 6 turn 1 and 2 and on a 5+ on turn 3 or later does not sound bad to me. It is better than +1 Attack on the charge for sure!

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Relic and Warlord traits   Mon Dec 04 2017, 17:52

@Tounguekutter wrote:
@FuelDrop wrote:
@|Meavar wrote:
I would not say the succubus has bad weapon options,
Her glaive is not great but quite ok in my mind, it is just that special rules like bonusses on 6+ to hit do not proc anymore. The other weapon options are quite bad I agree with that.

Her buff is not great, but also not that bad in my mind (Yes I know many others have better buffs, but I still think it is quite ok).
The problem is she should have been a combat monster, but she just misses the number of attacks she should have for a base s3 combat monster. Double her attacks and she would be fine. Then it might also be a choice between the warlord trait and having a glaive for now the glaive is the only option.

There is a reason I said she is "Worst in class" rather than worst. Look at other combat monsters on her level. The Troupe Master, the Exalted Champion, ect. Better Auras, wider arsenals with more versatile weapons, more or stronger attacks... as a melee monster, the Succubus is seriously lacking compared to her competition.

But what about points cost?  I too, would prefer to pay more for better buffs and combat potential that matches the fluff (which I always interpreted as Succubi being able to shred Chapter Masters but maybe I'm biased), but is the Succubi bad for her points?  If not, then she's not a bad option.  Also, there is now all the more reason to put +1 WS on Succubi with the warlord trait.  On turn 1 even with a glaive she can still hit on 6s and on turn 3 that goes up to 5+.  2 bonus hits on a 6 turn 1 and 2 and on a 5+ on turn 3 or later does not sound bad to me.  It is better than +1 Attack on the charge for sure!

WS +1 isn't equal to +1 to hit.
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