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 Using the new Chapter Approved rules

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Sun Nov 26 2017, 11:36

I am going to the London GT in May and I am putting together my list. The core is 5 man warrior squads in venoms, fliers and ravagers. Here is a variant based on the changes that came in chapter approved. Archon and court go in a venom, they can either be a back field counter melee unit or go get stuck in it makes sense. Warrior squads go in venoms. Haemonculus and grotesques webway in if it makes sense for a psychic bomb and/or charge, otherwise just foot slog up the board and hopefully act as a distraction carnifex leaving the shooty units to keep firing for longer.

Points: 2000pts
Command Points: 7

Battalion

Archon w/ Agoniser & Relic Pistol - 58pts (Warlord w/ the new trait)
Haemonculus w/ Crucible, EC Whip, Splinter Pistol - 83pts

5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts

3 Grotesques - 120pts

Court of the Archon
Lhamaen - 18pts
Medusae - 21pts
Sslyth - 31pts
Ur-Ghul - 20pts

Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - 155pts
Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - 155pts
Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - 155pts

Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannos - 95pts
Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannos - 95pts
Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannos - 95pts
Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannos - 95pts
Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannos - 95pts

Air Wing Detachment

Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2 Dark Lances & Splinter Cannon - 170pts
Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2 Dark Lances & Splinter Cannon - 170pts
Voidraven w/ 2 Dark Scythes - 169pts

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dygurren
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Mon Nov 27 2017, 18:46

Newer player. I see the Battalion and Air Wing detachments for +4 CP. Where are the other 3 CP coming from?
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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Mon Nov 27 2017, 21:55

You get 3 for being Battle Forged. Then add pluses/minuses from detachments
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Mon Nov 27 2017, 23:11

Mostly a solid list taking what advantage you can of the new options.

The all options Court is interesting. From the analysis I have done, I would rank them like this:
1) Medusae - good damage against a decent variety of targets
2) Sslyth - less damage output than Lhamaeans, but help protect the Archon and are hardier
3) Lhamaean - decent damage output now, but not as good as Medusae
4) Ur-Ghul - nice usefulness against GEQ otherwise inferior to other options.

If I was taking a Court, I would go 2 Medusae and 2 Sslyth, but your option is more interesting.

Grotesques don't really excite me in this edition. Not that hard to get rid of, and not that much damage output. They go nicely with the Haemonculus, but maybe Wracks instead?

The Court could be the unit footslogging up the board as being all characters they can't be targeted if another unit is closer.

The Splinter Cannon upgrade is marginal in my view compared to the Twin Splinter Rifle and you have seven of them. That is almost enough for another Venom of Kabalites.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Mon Nov 27 2017, 23:44

@Kantalla wrote:
If I was taking a Court, I would go 2 Medusae and 2 Sslyth, but your option is more interesting.

If you're putting a Court in a Venom, it might be worth taking a Lhamaean just for a cheap buffer in case of a destroyed transport - losing a Medusae or Sslyth to an unlucky roll of a 6 would be a bit more painful. If she survives, well, mortal wounds can come in handy in certain cases.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Tue Nov 28 2017, 03:21

That's a fair point for a transported unit. It would be a good option for a command point to save a high value model.

Doing a bit more thinking about this list concept, here a slightly different version with the Covens gone.

BATTALION

Archon (Agoniser / Splinter Pistol) Warlord
2×Medusa 2×Sslyth
(on foot)

Archon (Agoniser / Blaster)
Lhamaean, Sslyth, 2×Medusa
Venom (Splinter Cannon / Twin Rifles)

5 Kabalite Warriors (Blaster)
Venom (Splinter Cannon / Twin Rifles)
(5 units)

Ravager (Dark Lances)
(3 units)

AIR WING
Razorwing Jetfighter (Dark Lances / Twin Rifles)
Razorwing Jetfighter (Dark Lances / Twin Rifles)
Voidraven with Dark Scythes

That should be right on 2000. Basically I have swapped the Haemonculus and Grotesques for another Court, and the Splinter Cannon upgrades for a fifth Kabalite Warriors in Venom.

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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Tue Nov 28 2017, 10:40

The flyer wing and the court are really the only areas you can play with for points if you are dead set on keeping the grotesques and haemonculus. Kantalla is dead on with grotesques being nothing special right now. Three command points is steep to drop in grotesques and a haemonculus IMO. Not saying I won't try it.

I'd drop the splinter cannons of the RWJ really fast and use that to build a court with a more direct focus. Potentially dropping the grotesques to build a more unified or purposeful court and WWP them in. Losing a venom might hurt though unless you could fit another ravager or flyer in.

Maybe swap to void lances on the voidraven because I feel T8 is becoming more common or a better option. Dissies could be good but, they come premium points and upgrading the ravagers may not balance out as you would have less on the table for it.
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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Tue Nov 28 2017, 17:47

Thanks for all the feedback so far! As I stated in the OP, the core is the warriors in venoms, ravagers and fliers. I'm not attached to the covens, nor to the specific court loadout I first put, it just so happened to come to 2000 points exactly.

I might just keep my grotesques for friendly games only unless the codex makes them competitive.

Following the suggestions even further, the voidraven could be swapped to another razorwing to free up even more points.

So that would give:

3 x barebones DL RWJF for 465pts
4 x 5 warriors w/ blaster for 200pts
4 x barebones venoms for 320pts
2 x barebones archons for 116pts

That would leave 434pts left for archon upgrades, court models, additional venoms and additional warrior squads.

That could for example be used up by three more venoms (160pts), one more warrior squad (50pts) and then 2 courts consisting of a lhamaen, a medusae and a sslyth in each (142pts). That would come to 1998pts total I believe. I will keep playing around, as I'm not keen on the idea that the second archon would only have a splinter pistol, and also not being 2000 points.

One thing to note @lament.config is that only a max of two court models could be WWP'd in, as they aren't actually a unit.

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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Tue Nov 28 2017, 18:02

I know it's not popular, but I would 100% take the cannon upgrade on the Venoms. With the model count you have you're gonna need the volume of fire. Plus you'll be hanging out at the 18" range anyway with Blasters.

Speaking of blasters, no reason not to have them on Archons. 2+ Darklight? Yes ma'am.

I'm a little confused by your court choices - I know someone mentioned the Lhamean as a good ablative wound or whatever, but you still get an ablative wound from a Medusa or Sslyth and you also get the offensive power. I'd roll 2xMed 2xSslyth if you're gonna go court.

If you wanted to save points you could throw the Archons together with 3 Meduae or Sslyth. That gives the opponent a juicy target, but he's got to go through a lot to get your Warlord. Three Medusae rolling up into Eyeburst range is scary too, and not many people know just what it can do.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Thu Nov 30 2017, 06:51

@Chippen I get the argument both ways regarding the splinter cannons. The argument goes that without them you can get more units in total. This increases the work to be done by your enemy to remove your shooting abilities, and forces him to overkill each individual unit because it is cheaper. I guess the root of the question is do you want to get off more splinter shots earlier in the game, but none late game because all the venoms got killed, or shoot a little less early game but have a higher chance of having some venoms left for late game objective grabs?

Answering that question will depend in part on the mission pack for the tournament, which they are going to release after chapter approved comes out (not just leaked presumably).

Regarding the blasters on the archons, that most recent post was to describe a core which could be expanded in a number of ways, points dependent. One archon will be given the relic pistol though.

Here is a list I put together based on all of the discussion above:


Points: 1999pts
Command Points: 7

Battalion

Archon w/ Agoniser, Relic Pistol & PGL - 61pts (Warlord w/ the new trait)
Archon w/ Agoniser & Blaster - 73pts

5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 50pts

Court of the Archon - goes with warlord archon in a venom
Medusae - 21pts
Medusae - 21pts
Sslyth - 31pts

Court of the Archon - goes with the blaster archon in a venom
Medusae - 21pts
Sslyth - 31pts

Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - 155pts
Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - 155pts
Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - 155pts

Venom - 80pts
Venom - 80pts
Venom - 80pts
Venom - 80pts
Venom - 80pts
Venom - 80pts
Venom - 80pts

Air Wing Detachment

Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2 Dark Lances & Twin Splinter Rifle - 155pts
Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2 Dark Lances & Twin Splinter Rifle - 155pts
Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2 Dark Lances & Twin Splinter Rifle - 155pts

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Thu Nov 30 2017, 09:48

I'll be interested to know how that fares.

Suggest moving the PGL to the second Archon so it can be fired along with the Blaster. Otherwise, solid concept.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Using the new Chapter Approved rules   Thu Nov 30 2017, 11:55

Good point. Forgot that shooting a pistol prevents shooting with other weapons.

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