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 Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight

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Old_Soul
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 12:39

Tantalus....apocolypse??? Ridiculous reason from GW, maybe if you bring 3 but even then......this sucks.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 15:06

-That? Oh, it's my baneblade. No,no,no. It's alright for a standard game. What the hell is that thing???

-Well... It's a tantalus....

-It's an apocalypse model!! You can't play that against my army. That's OP!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 16:48

I dont know anyone that thinks the Tantalus was underpriced, there's been many talks about how its actually pretty balanced and it was one of the more balanced vehicles lol.

Im with you that it was a blanked points increase to so players stop saying "OMG you have a FW model, BOOO"


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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 21:35

There is an exception to GW nerfing anything that can kill their poster boys ... Tyranids ... Not only do they not wear power armor but they are a Xenos faction! (Gasp) and they are pretty decent at tearing ... Well ... Anything apart
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 21:56

@Archon_91 wrote:
There is an exception to GW nerfing anything that can kill their poster boys ... Tyranids ... Not only do they not wear power armor but they are a Xenos faction! (Gasp) and they are pretty decent at tearing ... Well ... Anything apart

I absolutely agree. I think it is very visible that Tyranids were a work of passion and dedication towards their fluff and gameplay. We were similar when 5th edition came out and it makes visible that any codex can be awesome when the right people are behind it. Since then... not so much anymore.

Most people make the mistake in seeing GW as this homogeneous blend of marine lovers. While this is somewhat mostly true, it is a company of individuals. The 7th edition codex was clearly a lacklustre job by somebody who did not understand our faction.

Clearly, not many people inside (and outside) of GW actually know what's the deal with Dark Eldar. The general consensus seems to be that we are "kinky craftworlder with worse armor and need artificial difficult". In truth, we are a finesse army and that more so than any other. Balancing a finesse army with a glass-hammer approach is a difficult task.

On top of this, balancing is an iterative process and that means lots and lots of playtesting. Not something I'd bet GW is invested on (and apparently.

TL;DR Unless somebody know EXACTLY what he is doing and puts a lot of passion into the army we are never going to be on Tyranid levels (and I don't think they are many). Brute force/spam faction are far easier to get right than finesse factions, especially in a game with that many machanics and variables.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 22:08

Which is why more than one person should be assigned to the factions ... Checks and balances. And some research into past renditions, as well as looking into the player base of the army, cause who knows the army better than a collection of players that play the army more than just for play testing? Honestly I'd bet my army that The Dark City could come up with a well balanced, well thought out, and rediculously fun codex for the true kin before GW does. Cause we all sit here and discuss what we know works and what we know doesn't compared to other armies. GW's codex writers are kinda forced into writing in a box, one that doesn't let them interact with what's out there thus they can't fully see the implementation of what they create in terms of a codex.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Tue Nov 28 2017, 22:17

IDK having play and read the new Codex many times, the Tyranids are on a different level of complexity to all the other codex's ive seen so far.

There are layers and layers of strategies within every single unit at all times while playing.

An Example is how i've been playing Genestealers and Lictors in jormungandr, a Genealtear can have DSing Nodes and a Lictor can slingshot DS instead of a Node, you can hold place those Nodes on Objectives and keep 100pts in reinforcement points to DS a Genestealer on a Node again after turn 3, so you can have multi-ways to DS them and after turn 3! Not counting they are then a 3+ armor Genestealer on an objective!

Thats not counting if you wanted to instead Double move+advance+charge+attack!

And that is just 1 unit, the entire book is set up to manipulate your lists before and during battle to have multi units with multi-options that are completely different from each other.

Playing Long ways against Guard? Burrowing a Hive Guard unit of 6 behind the enemy out of LoS then double shooting! Easy.

If i wasnt doing doubles for adepticon i was going to nids, Nids is my one of 3 armies (Aeldari, SoB, Nids)


IMO the Tyranids Codex is the most loved codex so far in 8th, it clearly has been thought through a lot.... or they just got lucky with the Synergy lol

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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Thu Nov 30 2017, 06:03

-sigh-  I know Im a little late on this, but it hurts.  I was really hoping for some changes..points drops to put us in line with some of the big armies out there...but I've seriously lost my taste for the game.  

Im even trying to play Eldar...and they jumped the points cost on the shadow spectres....  I really can't think of any reason why a T3 model should be over 30pts (unless a character).  I dropped my unit of 5 in...and it didnt last a single turn.... against a unit of pink horrors and two demon princes (in shooting, no close combat).  Now there is no reason to take them...because quite honestly, Dark Reapers are better, and cheaper
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Thu Nov 30 2017, 08:18

@Aschen wrote:
Im even trying to play Eldar...and they jumped the points cost on the shadow spectres....  I really can't think of any reason why a T3 model should be over 30pts (unless a character).

I don't have that much experience of using Shadow Spectres personally, but I'm guessing that "can easily get to -3 to be hit" was a factor in that.
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Thu Nov 30 2017, 09:45

@Burnage wrote:
@Aschen wrote:
Im even trying to play Eldar...and they jumped the points cost on the shadow spectres....  I really can't think of any reason why a T3 model should be over 30pts (unless a character).

I don't have that much experience of using Shadow Spectres personally, but I'm guessing that "can easily get to -3 to be hit" was a factor in that.

Perhaps, but so do Warp Spiders (coming in at 18pts)...not as easily, since they have 12in range on their guns...

So can Rangers, who come in at 12pts a pop. if you do two rangers (24pts) you get two shots, with a chance at a mortal wound, instead of two shots(on average) at -3ap.

IMO they should have made warlocks more expensive for their ability to cast strong psychics, rather than nerf the units that benefit from them
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Thu Nov 30 2017, 14:54

Revenant Titan went from an uncompetitive 1200pts to 2000pts ............ rofl. It's like they are just trying to price FW models out of the game, but only for Aeldari. Wtf.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Thu Nov 30 2017, 19:32

Um.. i think Shadow Specters are still great and would still play a 5man every game, its just not they are not easy to spam full armies of them.

Yeah they are T3, but they also are -1 to hit 3+ that can easily be place anywhere you need them to be. You just cant throw them at the opponent, you need other things around them and thats how all Eldar works, they are not like assassins and can go off solo, or like Nids and a 16man genestealer unit or Hgant can solo run up the table.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Fri Dec 01 2017, 02:30

All the Titans went up - across every faction.

You all know the succubus can access her warlord trait right? Lilith can straight off the bat for starters. If you take an agoniser on the succubus it works fine - otherwise you wait till T3 and it works fine with the glaive

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Fri Dec 01 2017, 04:21

We have had this discussion Massaen. The Glaive is compulsory, you sacrifice your pistol for the agonizer, and the stupid way that the trait and the iconic weapon are at odds for no reason shows that GW just didn't care. If it was taken from the codex where the -1 is gone, then it was a bad choice of trait to put in chapter approved.

Also, Lilith is so incredibly bad this edition that adding this trait doesn't even come close to redeeming her
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Fri Dec 01 2017, 04:22

@FuelDrop wrote:
We have had this discussion Massaen. The Glaive is compulsory, you sacrifice your pistol for the agonizer, and the stupid way that the trait and the iconic weapon are at odds for no reason shows that GW just didn't care. If it was taken from the codex where the -1 is gone, then it was a bad choice of trait to put in chapter approved.

Also, Lilith is so incredibly bad this edition that adding this trait doesn't even come close to redeeming her

She needs a 45pt drop to make her playable IMO. Tho i'd rather her get better rules and more attacks.

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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Sat Dec 02 2017, 10:59

The upping on FW models is inconsistent really. The Tantalus increase puzzles me, but they haven't touched the Reaper. Which in an honest opinion is oddly priced compared to a 3 lanced Ravager being 5 points more.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Points in.. Vect is crying himself to sleep tonight   Sat Dec 02 2017, 18:25

@URIEN wrote:
The upping on FW models is inconsistent really. The Tantalus increase puzzles me, but they haven't touched the Reaper. Which in an honest opinion is oddly priced compared to a 3 lanced Ravager being 5 points more.

Well D6 shots on average is more than always 3 over a long game, especially with CP's, but they are Heavy and no Assault weapons, its -1 to hit if you move.

Its already a fair price.

All "Large" units (as in big like Tantalus) went up in points from FW, some that wasnt even being played went up 1/3 the cost, It "seems" they just want less FW on the table in general and FW is only meant to be for fun and not Comp.

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