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 Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 17:27

RedRegicide's 'Brainstorming stratagems' has been a lot of fun...maybe we include faction traits into the party??

What would people like to see for our Cults, Covens, Kabals???

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 18:02

See for our traits, i assume we'll be broken up into the three. Which if they are good enough, could really help our units be specialists, like the players who play Jormundar and Kraken for example. Its also hard to come up with some b/c we get so many standard ones built into PFP.

I don't know specifics about fluff. But benefit wise i'd like to see:

Coven - Prophets of Flesh: FNP 5+ instead of 6+
Cult - Gang specialists: Hit and run, hellions get +2 to charges (nice for WW hellions)
Kabal - The Lords of the Iron Thorn: Double the wounds on damage charts, vehicles get a 6+++

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 18:10

Cult of the Seventh Woe :
At the beginning of the game, allows each of your Beast unit to gain a genetical alteration (works the same as with drugs) :
- Poisoned attacks (5+ for birds, 4+ with khymeras, 3+ with CF)
- +1 S and T
- Advance and charge
- Toxic blood (everytime it loses a wound in CC, roll a die. 6+ for birds, 5+ for khymeras and CF. If you succeed, the attacker takes a mortal wound).
- Every time it causes an unsaved wound, it gains an additionnal attack (not stackable obviously).
- Inured to pain.

Cult of Strife :
Every time a Cult unit rolls a 6 to hit, it generates 1 additionnal hit. If Lelith is within 6", this becomes 2 additionnal hits.

Cult of red grief

When a Wych unit is within 3" of one of your Hellions/reavers unit when that Reavers/Hellions unit starts moving, the wyches can hop onto them (max 1 wych per hellion, and max 2 wych per reavers). Remove them from the table, and redeploy them wholly within 3" of the reaver/hellion unit at the end of their move. Every wych unit you have can only do this once per turn. It can still charge.
The point of this is to allow you to play tranport-less cults.


Cult of the Impaled

Your Incubi and Mandrakes become Cult units. You may field up to 1 Imperial Knight in your army. It has the Cult keyword and the Drukhari and aeldari faction keyword.




Kabal of the Black Heart

Standard Kabal. Your Kabalites reroll 1's to hit. This becomes reroll every miss if they are in the same vehicle as your warlord, and within 6".

Kabal of the last Hatred
: start the PfP table on turn 2.


Kabal of the Iron thorn

Your Darklight weapons can reroll 1's on wound rolls and damage rolls.


Kabal of the Flayed Skull

Your Razorwing jetfighters and Voidraven bombers can reroll to hit against targets that have been attacked by your Reavers jetbikes in the same shooting phase.




Coven of the Ebon Sting

Your Coven units regain 1 wound per turn.


The Hex

Your coven units create a -1 LD aura, stackable 4 times


Prophets of flesh

Your coven units have +1 to their inured to pain and their invulnerable save rolls.


The Altered

Your Coven units have +1 to wound when they use poisoned weaponry. They also have +1 on the roll-off for the Ossefactor.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 18:31

Potential Traits:

Kabal Trait 1: Any <_____> Kabal unit that doesn't move in the movement phase has their number of shots doubled (e.g. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2). This applies to Kabal units deployed in a transport that did not move this battle round as well.

Kabal Trait 2: Any non-flyer <_____> Kabal unit may fall back and shoot in the same battle round. This would apply to units deployed within transports as well.

Kabal Trait 3: <_____> Kabal units receive AP-1 to splinter weapons (or subsequently, wound on a 3+, but stay at 0AP).

Kabal Trait 4: <_____> Kabal units receive +1 cover save if they have not advanced this turn. (Yes, I'm pulling this one straight for Tyranid Hive Fleet!)

Kabal Trait 5: <_____> Kabal units resolve overwatch hit rolls at a 4+ (can we get SOME love for the fact that are guys are suppose to be physically and technically 'a step above' other army's troops in terms of sheer ability??)

Cult Trait 1: Any <_____> Cult unit embarked on a transport may disembark after the transport has moved. These units may still move & advance or move & charge as normal

Cult Trait 2: Any <_____> Cult units may take two combat drugs instead of one. Combat drugs may overlap with other units

Cult Trait 3: Any <_____> Cult unit that makes a successful charge gains an additional attack during that melee round

Cult Trait 4: All enemy units receive a -1 to hit during their shooting phase against <_____> Cult units

Coven Trait 1: <_____> Coven units engaged in melee gain +1S (maybe also +1T?) for each subsequent battle round that continue to be locked in combat up to +2S (maybe also +2T?)

Coven Trait 2: Enemy units within 3" of <_____> Coven units receive a -2Ld during their morale tests

Coven Trait 3: Enemy units within 1" of <_____> Coven units have their strength and toughness characteristics reduced by 1 (e.g. S4, T5 units within 1" of this Coven's units are reduced to S4, T4). Down to S1 & T1.

Coven Trait 4: <_____> Coven units receive a +1 to their invulnerable save. For those units without an invulnerable save, they receive a 6+ invl save.


Additionally, I think Tyranid hive fleets have demonstrated it isn't entirely impossible that some of these are stacked up under the same Kabal/Cult/Coven...but independently, I think these are aggressive but reasonable given what I have seen from other armies.

I would love to know what people think! Anything sound OP? I intentionally left some stuff off and limited what our army can/should be able to do with transports...transport capability should probably be left as specific abilities for our units. I imagine there should be some coven, kabal, and definitely cult units that should be able to disembark and charge after a raider has already moved, for instance.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 20:06

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Cult of Strife :
Every time a Cult unit rolls a 6 to hit, it generates 1 additionnal hit. If Lelith is within 6", this becomes 2 additionnal hits.

this is already a rumoured improvement for cult in chapter approved except on a 6 to hit it generates 3 hits for cult, its not bad but we badly need -1 ap on attacks, the issue isn't hitting, its wounding
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 20:07

@Dizzie wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Cult of Strife :
Every time a Cult unit rolls a 6 to hit, it generates 1 additionnal hit. If Lelith is within 6", this becomes 2 additionnal hits.

this is already a rumoured improvement for cult in chapter approved except on a 6 to hit it generates 3 hits for cult, its not bad but we badly need -1 ap on attacks, the issue isn't hitting, its wounding

It is a rumored warlord trait (i.e. succubus). not for all wyches.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 20:25

Cult of the cursed blade - Wyches use 5+ poison in melee
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 21:06

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
@Dizzie wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Cult of Strife :
Every time a Cult unit rolls a 6 to hit, it generates 1 additionnal hit. If Lelith is within 6", this becomes 2 additionnal hits.

this is already a rumoured improvement for cult in chapter approved except on a 6 to hit it generates 3 hits for cult, its not bad but we badly need -1 ap on attacks, the issue isn't hitting, its wounding

It is a rumored warlord trait (i.e. succubus). not for all wyches.

went back to read it and it states:

Warlord Traits
1. Wych Cult: each roll of a 6+ in the fight phase causes 3 hits
2. Haemonculus Coven: heal d3 wounds at the start of each turn
3. Re-roll to hits and to wound rolls of a 1 during the fight phase.

Relic – Pistol 2 R12 S1 AP-2 D2 wounds on a 2+ vehicles on a 6+. For each model killed bearer gains a wound

Stratagem
1CP/3CP one infantry, beast, or biker unit or 2 for 3 CP may use teh webway and emerge onto the battle at the end of any of your movement phases. Setting up anywhere that is 9″ or more from enemy units. Can only be used once per battle.

I posted all of it  just in case anyone wanted to see it, its appropriate for this thread anyway
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 22:00

Hmm ... (Disclaimer ... I am not that knowledgeable of the fluff so if I get a name wrong or what the kabal/cult/coven should be known for I apologise)
Kabal of the poisoned tongue: Units of this kabal are adept poison makes and as such employ them on the battlefield. All splinter weapons on <kabal> units of the poisoned tongue wound on a 3+ instead of on a 4+ (vehicles are wounded on a 6+ still)
Kabal of the Black Heart: Being the biggest and most ancient kabal in the dark city this kabal has access to a multitude of weaponry. <Kabal> units of the black heart may add 1 additional special and heavy weapon they are allowed to purchase. (Unit Sargents may purchase these weapons)
Kabal of the Wraithkind: (bit of an unknown here but eh) this kabal once tried to usurp Vects rule and as such they were altered by Vect into nightshades fiends. <Kabal> units of the Wraithkind have a -1 to hit modifier (stackable with the hard to hit rule) and gain +1 armor save while within cover.

Cult of strife: The most famous cult as it is sponsored by Vect himself the cult of strife is renowned for it's leading succubus lelith hesperax and their combat skill. <Cult> units of the cult of strife add 1 to the number of attacks they may make in each combat phase.
Cult of the Impaled: Known for the possession of an imperial knight known as "The Forgotten Knight" and for working very closely with Incubi and Mandrake's to the extent that they have adopted some of their training. <Cult> of the impaled treat any <Incubi> and <Mandrake's> units as part of the cult thus they gain the <cult> keyword allowing them to be effected by the succubus aura. If your warlord is a succubus and your main detachment is a <cult> of the impaled you may field "The Forgotten Knight" (use the rules for an imperial knight).

Cult of the Seventh Woe: this cult spent many many years, learning about the weapon beasts of the tyranid and became masters of the alien species, breeding the Hive mind out of them. If your main detachment is <cult> of the seventh woe you may take tyranid units (non character) instead of the regular beasts, these tyranid gain the <beast> and <cult> keywords and can be injected with combat drugs (they lose instinctive behavior and do not gain a Hive fleet benefit) they must remain with 6" of a beast master of the <cult> of seventh woe or they deal d3 mortal wounds to themselves every turn.

Prophets of Flesh: this is Urien Rakarths own coven and specializes in making grotesque out of alien species and thus are masters of creating these horrendous creatures. Grotesque units of <Coven> Prophets of Flesh add +1 all stats and due to their gruesome nature any enemy unit with 6" of a unit of grotesque subtract 1 from their leadership.
The Ebon Sting: renowned for their creativity of Talos pain engines and creation of their signature poison, nichtovermid. All <coven> Ebon Sting Talons pain engine close combat weapons are coated with nichtovermid, attacks made by these weapons against any non <vehicle> model wound on a 2+ and cause an additional mortal wound on a roll of a 5+
Coven of The Dark Creed: fear plays a major part in the coven of the dark Creed and as such they Allie quite often with Mandrakes as well as aspire to make their creations as terrifying as possible. <Coven> of the dark Creed units envelope fear inspire terror in their opponents. Any enemy unit within 3" of a unit of the dark Creed subtract 1 from their leadership characteristic. Mandrake's taken in a detachment of the dark Creed gain the <coven>of the dark creed keyword and are effected by the haemunculous aura.

... I know it's a lot but and pretty much all of these won't be used but I think these would be pretty cool rules. The coven we're a bit more difficult than the cults and kabal ... Hope ya'll enjoy these ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 22:35

Cult of Strife: Natural born killers. Units with this strategem lose the combat drugs special rule, but gain +1 to wound in the fight phase against non-vehicles. For every unsaved wound they cause in the fight phase they may make an additional attack, though these do not generate further attacks.


Note: According to one source I found, the Cult of Strife refuse to use combat drugs because it takes away from the experience. Given that they are still the number 1 cult, I figure that has to mean that they are JUST. THAT. GOOD.
Spoiler:
 

Cult of Red Grief: Mounted assault. Wych cult infantry can re-embark on their transport with their consolidation move, and ignore the normal limitations of not being able to embark on the turn you disembark. Non infantry may charge after advancing.

Note: I was looking for a suitable second cult and found this on a wiki:
Spoiler:
 
Being able to re-embark or switch transports seems unique and fluffy. This does of course assume that being able to disembark and charge becomes a standard part of the dark eldar arsenal, of course. Smile

Cult of the Withered Blade: Master Slavers. Units from this cult may reroll 1's to hit and to wound in the fight phase when fighting against infantry. If the unit is within 6" of the succubus, they may reroll all failed hits and wounds in the fight phase against infantry.

Note: Given that my Cult of Strife trait removed combat drugs from the table I figured I needed at least two others so that the choice is not just "combat drugs or no combat drugs". Working on the assumption that the succubus's aura either stays the same or improves to rerolling 1's to wound as well, I explicitly designed this trait to not render it redundant.
Spoiler:
 

Cult of Wrath Unbound: Masters of panic. Casualties inflicted in the fight phase by units from this cult are doubled for the purposes of the following morale phase.

Note: And some fun fear shenanegans. because who doesn't love those!
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Fri Nov 17 2017, 22:54

@Dizzie wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Cult of Strife :
Every time a Cult unit rolls a 6 to hit, it generates 1 additionnal hit. If Lelith is within 6", this becomes 2 additionnal hits.

this is already a rumoured improvement for cult in chapter approved except on a 6 to hit it generates 3 hits for cult, its not bad but we badly need -1 ap on attacks, the issue isn't hitting, its wounding

I disagree here. If you have enough hits, you don't need high strength or good AP. It's called hit saturation, and it's what made Conscripts so overpowered.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sat Nov 18 2017, 13:47

@Mppqlmd wrote:

I disagree here. If you have enough hits, you don't need high strength or good AP. It's called hit saturation, and it's what made Conscripts so overpowered.

Generally i would agree, but the difference against your typical marine is marginal, it does help against t3 though substantially, the str 3 and 0 ap is still problematic.

With that warlord hit upgrade its 5.55 marines dead which is not bad using 10 wyches(+1atk), agoniser and 2 razorflails, then if you count in shooting+ grenades + blast pistol its closer to 9, which ideally is were we want to be, not too strong and not too soft on the charge, the sweet spot being 7 or 8.
However wyches die too easy to shooting and math hammering wyches is not useful at all due to this, we don't live in a bubble were wyches don't get shot at. therefore imo attack saturation should be closer to 13 or 14 since they are just a glass cannon that die easy, the -1ap would work greatly for fixing wyches.

I like wyches, always have but anytime i run a wyche cult they do so bad its laughable, but on the other hand having 1 squad with a succubus does amazingly as a hard counter to deep strikers.
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sat Nov 18 2017, 14:52

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
@Dizzie wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Cult of Strife :
Every time a Cult unit rolls a 6 to hit, it generates 1 additionnal hit. If Lelith is within 6", this becomes 2 additionnal hits.

this is already a rumoured improvement for cult in chapter approved except on a 6 to hit it generates 3 hits for cult, its not bad but we badly need -1 ap on attacks, the issue isn't hitting, its wounding

It is a rumored warlord trait (i.e. succubus). not for all wyches.

And that makes a big difference in how valuable it is. On all Cult units? Awesome. Just on the Warlord? I'm not sure I'd ever want to take it.
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sat Nov 18 2017, 17:45

Exactly. And that may be only me, but i think when i try to represent Wyches battling Space marines, this is exactly the kind of image i have in mind.

I don't picture them inflicting deep wounds that by-pass their armor with super cutting weapons

I don't picture them using poison or power weapons

I picture them drowning them i a thousand little cuts, dancing around until the space marines die, half exhausted, half bled to death.

So if i had to decide what kind of offensive power the wyches should have, i'd really say exactly that : the ability to drown the enemy in a bucket of S3, AP- (mayyyybe AP-1, but certainly not more).


Whatmore, the rule i proposed was for cult units. Reavers and Hellions included. I don't know if you imagine how cool that would be for hellions (if you roll a 6, ta daaaa, you now have 3 hits at S4/S5 D2 !).

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sat Nov 18 2017, 18:30

I'd be pretty surprised if we didn't get a covens trait that was a direct rip-off of the Night Lords, considering the precedence with Freakish Spectacle. I'd imagine we'll also get one that adds to the FnP roll for all Covens units (although, I'd like to see this role taken by the Cronos instead of it's re-roll characteristic).

Kabal I'd imagine we get a re-roll 1's with splinter weapons

Wych Cult will be advance and charge
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 01:07

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Exactly. And that may be only me, but i think when i try to represent Wyches battling Space marines, this is exactly the kind of image i have in mind.

I don't picture them inflicting deep wounds that by-pass their armor with super cutting weapons

I don't picture them using poison or power weapons

I picture them drowning them i a thousand little cuts, dancing around until the space marines die, half exhausted, half bled to death.

So if i had to decide what kind of offensive power the wyches should have, i'd really say exactly that : the ability to drown the enemy in a bucket of S3, AP- (mayyyybe AP-1, but certainly not more).


Whatmore, the rule i proposed was for cult units. Reavers and Hellions included. I don't know if you imagine how cool that would be for hellions (if you roll a 6, ta daaaa, you now have 3 hits at S4/S5 D2 !).

Honestly, I don't think it is too much to ask that our wyches get a significant upgrade to their dmg output. As a unit that is suppose to our quintessential melee troop choice, lets see how they compare with a genestealer unit currently:

Genestealer (8th ed) stock stats:
M 8"
WS 3+
BS 4+
S 4
T 4
W 1
A 3 (4 if in a unit with 10+ models in it)
Ld 9
Sv 5++

Stock weapon: rending claws S User l AP -1 l D 1 l
Abilities: On a wound roll of 6+, hit is resolved at AP -4
Total Points per Model: 12 points p/model

Wyches (Index) stock stats:
M 8"
WS 3+
BS 3+
S 3
T 3
W 1
A 1
Ld 7
Sv 6+ l 4++ (in melee only) l 6+++ PfP

Stock weapon:
Splinter Pistol Range: 12" Assault 1 l S* (wounds non-vehicles on 4+) l AP 0
Hekatarii Blade: Melee l S User l AP 0 l D 1 l Abilities: 1 additional attack using this weapon

Abilities: No escape (roll-off if enemy unit wishes to fall back)
Total Points per Model: 9 points p/model

I think the discrepancy/deficit in damage output, etc...is significant between these two units given only a 3 point difference.

GW can generally improve a unit in a few ways:

1) Reduce points, increasing the number of models brought. I'm not necessarily a fan of this approach for Wyches. We are not a mob army.

2) Provide new/updated abilities powerful enough to improve a unit given their point value. I think this has some merit with Wyches and may play a part in our codex.

3) Improve the model and/or weapon characteristics for a unit. I think this is where GW could make the most significant improvement. Given out fluff, I wouldn't want to see bigger units of Wyches, I would want to see more lethal Wyches.

Currently we are doing ~half the number of attacks of a genestealer, at 1 less S, and a standard -1 AP than a genestealer for 3 less points. That's a considerable issue. I don't think it would be asking a lot for some sizable improvements to Wyches after looking at it in this light.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 01:40

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Exactly. And that may be only me, but i think when i try to represent Wyches battling Space marines, this is exactly the kind of image i have in mind.

I don't picture them inflicting deep wounds that by-pass their armor with super cutting weapons

I don't picture them using poison or power weapons

I picture them drowning them i a thousand little cuts, dancing around until the space marines die, half exhausted, half bled to death.

So if i had to decide what kind of offensive power the wyches should have, i'd really say exactly that : the ability to drown the enemy in a bucket of S3, AP- (mayyyybe AP-1, but certainly not more).


Whatmore, the rule i proposed was for cult units. Reavers and Hellions included. I don't know if you imagine how cool that would be for hellions (if you roll a 6, ta daaaa, you now have 3 hits at S4/S5 D2 !).

Honestly, I don't think it is too much to ask that our wyches get a significant upgrade to their dmg output. As a unit that is suppose to our quintessential melee troop choice, lets see how they compare with a genestealer unit currently:

Genestealer (8th ed) stock stats:
M 8"
WS 3+
BS 4+
S 4
T 4
W 1
A 3 (4 if in a unit with 10+ models in it)
Ld 9
Sv 5++

Stock weapon: rending claws S User l AP -1 l D 1 l
Abilities: On a wound roll of 6+, hit is resolved at AP -4
Total Points per Model: 12 points p/model

Wyches (Index) stock stats:
M 8"
WS 3+
BS 3+
S 3
T 3
W 1
A 1
Ld 7
Sv 6+ l 4++ (in melee only) l 6+++ PfP

Stock weapon:
Splinter Pistol Range: 12" Assault 1 l S* (wounds non-vehicles on 4+) l AP 0
Hekatarii Blade: Melee l S User l AP 0 l D 1 l Abilities: 1 additional attack using this weapon

Abilities: No escape (roll-off if enemy unit wishes to fall back)
Total Points per Model: 9 points p/model

I think the discrepancy/deficit in damage output, etc...is significant between these two units given only a 3 point difference.

GW can generally improve a unit in a few ways:

1) Reduce points, increasing the number of models brought. I'm not necessarily a fan of this approach for Wyches. We are not a mob army.

2) Provide new/updated abilities powerful enough to improve a unit given their point value. I think this has some merit with Wyches and may play a part in our codex.

3) Improve the model and/or weapon characteristics for a unit. I think this is where GW could make the most significant improvement. Given out fluff, I wouldn't want to see bigger units of Wyches, I would want to see more lethal Wyches.

Currently we are doing ~half the number of attacks of a genestealer, at 1 less S, and a standard -1 AP than a genestealer for 3 less points. That's a considerable issue. I don't think it would be asking a lot for some sizable improvements to Wyches after looking at it in this light.

Look, if you want a fair comparison take a look at bloodbrides, which are within 1 point of Genestealers. Oh, and don't forget drugs which are apparently supposed to make it all better, somehow.

And Genestealers can charge after advancing.
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 02:09

Quote :
And Genestealers can charge after advancing.

Don't forget they can start off of the table with four potential points of entry, as well as a plethora of Stradegems to help their movement. I think I read somewhere that it's possible, granted hilariously infeasible, for a unit of Genestealers to move 60" in a phase.

This was presented more as a hilarious option, but it still shows how fast the things are.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 02:16

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
And Genestealers can charge after advancing.

Don't forget they can start off of the table with four potential points of entry, as well as a plethora of Stradegems to help their movement. I think I read somewhere that it's possible, granted hilariously infeasible, for a unit of Genestealers to move 60" in a phase.

This was presented more as a hilarious option, but it still shows how fast the things are.

Yeah I realized just a couple of minutes ago I completely forgot to add that they can move and advance AND charge.

...further proof the notion of charging off of a raider that has moved isn't OP.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 02:54

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
And Genestealers can charge after advancing.

Don't forget they can start off of the table with four potential points of entry, as well as a plethora of Stradegems to help their movement. I think I read somewhere that it's possible, granted hilariously infeasible, for a unit of Genestealers to move 60" in a phase.

This was presented more as a hilarious option, but it still shows how fast the things are.

Yeah I realized just a couple of minutes ago I completely forgot to add that they can move and advance AND charge.

...further proof the notion of charging off of a raider that has moved isn't OP.
But we have combat drugs, and therefore are if anything more powerful! Except not.
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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 03:06

@FuelDrop wrote:
@SushiBoy013 wrote:
@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
And Genestealers can charge after advancing.

Don't forget they can start off of the table with four potential points of entry, as well as a plethora of Stradegems to help their movement. I think I read somewhere that it's possible, granted hilariously infeasible, for a unit of Genestealers to move 60" in a phase.

This was presented more as a hilarious option, but it still shows how fast the things are.

Yeah I realized just a couple of minutes ago I completely forgot to add that they can move and advance AND charge.

...further proof the notion of charging off of a raider that has moved isn't OP.
But we have combat drugs, and therefore are if anything more powerful! Except not.
z

We can have T4, OR +1 Attack, OR S4! What? You say genestealers already have all this naturally?

...keep making trouble and you'll get the 'Ynnari treatment'.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 03:13

Some really cool Traits!

Some Maelstrom abilities would be nice as well maybe.

Just an idea but something like Being able to embark onto a venom at the beginning of the movement -move the venom- then disembark the unit and it can still move. Great for getting to objectives and just overall movement dominance. I mean if Stealers can move - advance - charge i dont think its too much to ask.

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Sun Nov 19 2017, 03:17

@RedRegicide wrote:
See for our traits, i assume we'll be broken up into the three. Which if they are good enough, could really help our units be specialists, like the players who play Jormundar and Kraken for example. Its also hard to come up with some b/c we get so many standard ones built into PFP.

I don't know specifics about fluff. But benefit wise i'd like to see:

Coven - Prophets of Flesh: FNP 5+ instead of 6+
Cult - Gang specialists: Hit and run, hellions get +2 to charges (nice for WW hellions)
Kabal - The Lords of the Iron Thorn: Double the wounds on damage charts, vehicles get a 6+++


That Kabal trait would be fantastic!

Kabal of the broken Sigil - All enemy units within 6" of a unit with this trait have -2 to their leadership
(this stacks with "Mantle of agony" PFP )

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Mon Nov 20 2017, 18:09

Quote :
Coven - Prophets of Flesh: FNP 5+ instead of 6+
Cult - Gang specialists: Hit and run, hellions get +2 to charges (nice for WW hellions)
Kabal - The Lords of the Iron Thorn: Double the wounds on damage charts, vehicles get a 6+++

I really hope it'll get more creative than that... those doctrines are found in at least 3 codices...

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PostSubject: Re: Brainstorming Kabal/Cult/Coven Traits   Wed Dec 20 2017, 07:14

Kabal Signatures: Kabal signatures affect all models with the faction keyword unless otherwise specified.


Kabal of the Black Heart: Matchless Discipline

Add 1 to the Leadership characteristic of all units with this signature. Additionally,when calculating how many models are within 3” of an objective, count each of your Kabal of the Blackheart models twice.

Kabal of the Iron Thorn: Peerless Manufacturing

Units with this signature may reroll 1 hit roll and 1 wound roll in each shooting phase. Additionally, Vehicle units with this Kabal Signature may roll a dice for each wound or mortal wound they suffer. On a 6+ the wound or mortal wound is ignored.

Kabal of the Last Hatred: Semi-Immortal

When rolling for the Inured to Suffering special rule, Kabal of the Last Hatred models add 1 to their roll.

Kabal of the Flayed Skull: Insane Speed

You may include Reaver Jetbikes as part of a Kabal of the Flayed Skull army by changing their <Cult> faction keyword to <Kabal of the Flayed Skull>. Additionally all Infantry, Vehicles, and Jetbikes in a Kabal of the Flayed Skull army may move an additional D6” when they Advance, and Jetbikes and Vehicles count rolls of “1” or “2” as rolls of “3” for this roll.

Kabal of the Broken Sigil: Harbingers of Discord

Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic by 1 for each unit with this Kabal Signature within 6” (up to a maximum of -3).

Kabal of the Severed: Piratical Assault

Instead of deploying units with this Kabal Signature normally, you may send the unit to attack from an unexpected quarter. Place the unit in tactical reserves. At the end of any of your first 3 movement phases, you may deploy the unit anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9” away from an enemy unit and more than 9” away from a table edge.


Cult Obsessions: Cult Obsessions affect all non-vehicle units with the faction keyword unless otherwise specified.


Cult of Strife: Ironclad Alliance

Cult of Strife units are treated as also having the Kabal of the Blackheart Signature and faction keyword. Additionally, if a Cult of Strife unit targets an enemy unit in the fight phase that was targeted in the previous shooting phase by a unit that has the Kabal of the Blackheart Signature but not the Cult of Strife Signature, the Cult of Strife unit adds 1 to their attacks characteristic for that fight phase.

Cult of Cursed Blade: Lethal Deceptions

Units with this Cult Obsession may Shoot and/or Charge in the same turn in which they Fall Back. Additionally, if, when declaring which enemy unit(s) you are going to charge with units with this Cult Obsession there are multiple units that you could charge, you may pick the one that fires Overwatch when your opponent fires Overwatch.

Cult of Red Grief: Balletic Maneuvers

Units with this Cult Obsession may move 2D6” when they are chosen as a target by an enemy in the shooting phase, but must end their move further from the targeting enemy unit. Additionally, Wych, Bloodbride, and Succubus units with this Cult Obsession may move over friendly Raiders, Venoms, and Reaver Jetbikes as though they too had the Fly keyword, and when they do so they may add D6” to their Move characteristic for that phase.

Cult of Wrath Unbound: Killing Trance

Units with this Cult Obsession add 2 to their Attacks characteristic on the turn in which they Charge. However, they may only Charge and Shoot at the nearest enemy unit.

Cult of Seventh Woe: Live Capture

When rolling off to determine if your opponent can Fall Back as per the No Escape rule, add 2 to your roll for every additional friendly unit with the rule within 6”. If the enemy unit does escape, inflict D3 mortal wounds to the escaping unit.

Cult of the Blood Shadow: Blurring Assaults

Units with the Dodge special rule may make their saves against enemy Overwatch.


Coven Creeds: Coven Creeds affect all non-vehicle units with the faction keyword unless otherwise specified.


Coven of the Prophets of the Flesh: Perfect Creations

Add 1 to the Wounds characteristic of all models with this Coven Creed.

Coven of the Ebon Sting: Esoteric Poisons

All weapons that wound on a fixed value add 1 to their wound values when wounding against non-vehicle models.

Coven of the Everspiral: Eternal Endurance

Models automatically regain a wound at the beginning of each turn up to their starting value. Wracks with this Creed add 1 to their Inured to Suffering roll.

Coven of the Altered: Berserk Rage

Models with this Coven Creed add 1 to their Attacks characteristic on any turn they Charge for the duration of the following Fight phase.

Coven of the Hex: Fiendish Hexes

When an enemy unit attempts to cast a Psychic power within 18” of a unit with this Coven Creed they suffer Perils of the Warp on any roll of a double. Additionally, enemy units within 18” reroll rolls of 6 when rolling to hit in the Shooting phase.

Coven of the Dark Creed: Insane Inspiration

Units with this Creed automatically pass Morale tests if they are within 12” of a Haemonculus, and if they were within 12” of a Haemonculus at the beginning or end of the movement phase, they may Charge even if they Advanced that turn.

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