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 Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf

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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 17:35

Relevant section in the new FAQ: https://i.redd.it/o3mcfoguedyz.png

Did they get nerfed too hard? Can they still be competitive? Most importantly, is this possibly a
preemptive nerf based on the super OP new units we'll be getting in the DE codex?! Discuss!
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 17:48

Ynnari with the new Craftworld codex are indeed overpowered, but even that is due to Dark Reapers with psychic buffs. This was very heavy handed, however, a better solution in my opinion would be to limit SfD to friendly turns.

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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 18:00

I'm not even necessarily against the one-soulburst-action-type-per-turn thing. It presents a really interesting list building challenge that promotes diversity. But getting hit with that in addition to the "friendly turns only" thing might be too much to overcome.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 18:20

This kills the Ynnari (at least until their Codex).

I'd heard the "only one Soulburst per turn" rumour before this and thought that would be a hard nerf. But to be unable to make Soulburst actions on the enemy's turn at all? That's huge.

Oh well, it was nice playing with Yvraine for a while.
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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 18:22

Let me ask you this - do you think it would be balanced if it were one type of soulburst action per battle round? So you could still do it on the enemy turn, but not if you did that same type of action on your turn. Might be a more elegant solution - not that my theorycrafting matters.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 18:50

I think it is to much. just having each action once would have been enough.

And the thing I liked most from the pfd was that it also made your opponent have to worry about it, now that is mostly gone. I never played them much but right now they are to me even less attractive.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 21:53

GW taking a Thunder Hammer to crack a nut. Ridiculously OTT nerf. Why not wait a while and see whether people are even still taking Ynnari after the 3 factions get their own codexes? It's not like Ynnari are roflstomping tournaments.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 22:13

@Count Adhemar wrote:
GW taking a Thunder Hammer to crack a nut. Ridiculously OTT nerf. Why not wait a while and see whether people are even still taking Ynnari after the 3 factions get their own codexes? It's not like Ynnari are roflstomping tournaments.

I don't know how many tournaments there have been since the release of the Craftworld Codex, but a mostly-Ynnari list won Blood and Glory. One of only two lists to win all five games that they played, as well.

Edit: This article about Warzone Atlanta also suggests that the Ynnari are performing well above par as a faction, even post Craftworld Codex.


Last edited by Burnage on Thu Nov 16 2017, 22:42; edited 1 time in total
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Thu Nov 16 2017, 22:34

Every instance of a nerf that GW has promoted in the FAQs so far has been insane overkill. Razorwing flocks. Commissars. Now this.
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Fri Nov 17 2017, 05:28

I dunno... I could see 'once per phase'... or 'once per unit'..but yeah... I was building a ynnari list, now Im thinking that just taking Craftworld Eldar would be a better idea.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Fri Nov 17 2017, 09:30

@Aschen wrote:
I dunno... I could see 'once per phase'... or 'once per unit'..but yeah... I was building a ynnari list, now Im thinking that just taking Craftworld Eldar would be a better idea.  

That's the thing, the decision on whether to go Ynnari was a no brainer for CWE before their codex but after the codex (until this FAQ) it was actually something that needed to be thought about as you lost quite a lot in order to get SfD.

Ultimately this nerf does not address the worst excesses of SfD as you can still take Yvraine+Reapers/Wraithguard and get a pretty much guaranteed double shooting attack from one of the most powerful shooting units in the game. What the FAQ has done though is take away any reason to consider an entire army made up from the various Aeldari factions - which was the entire point of the Ynnari! Good work GW! Mad

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submarine
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Fri Nov 17 2017, 16:10

My reading of it is that two units cannot make the same soulburst action in the same turn, but they can make a different soulburst action. So if one unit moved, the other can shoot.

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Old_Soul
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Fri Nov 17 2017, 18:09

@Burnage wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
GW taking a Thunder Hammer to crack a nut. Ridiculously OTT nerf. Why not wait a while and see whether people are even still taking Ynnari after the 3 factions get their own codexes? It's not like Ynnari are roflstomping tournaments.

I don't know how many tournaments there have been since the release of the Craftworld Codex, but a mostly-Ynnari list won Blood and Glory. One of only two lists to win all five games that they played, as well.

Edit: This article about Warzone Atlanta also suggests that the Ynnari are performing well above par as a faction, even post Craftworld Codex.

There have been plenty of tournaments since 8th launched. Here in England we had the warhammer world grand tournament Heat 1, all you saw was Magnus, Mortarion, Celestine and ofc Guillimen.

And at another tournament filmed by TTT last month one player brought Harlequin Ynnari and got beaten by TTT Lawrence Dark Eldar.

I agree that nerfing them this hard is not right, but it just means that when CHapter approved is released at Xmas they will get adjusted. Trying to find the balance will take time, they were too extreme, now they are a bit too soft so hopefully next time GW will get it right. But its all about Truekin anyway.

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Last edited by Old_Soul on Fri Nov 17 2017, 18:19; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Fri Nov 17 2017, 18:10

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Aschen wrote:
I dunno... I could see 'once per phase'... or 'once per unit'..but yeah... I was building a ynnari list, now Im thinking that just taking Craftworld Eldar would be a better idea.  

That's the thing, the decision on whether to go Ynnari was a no brainer for CWE before their codex but after the codex (until this FAQ) it was actually something that needed to be thought about as you lost quite a lot in order to get SfD.

Ultimately this nerf does not address the worst excesses of SfD as you can still take Yvraine+Reapers/Wraithguard and get a pretty much guaranteed double shooting attack from one of the most powerful shooting units in the game. What the FAQ has done though is take away any reason to consider an entire army made up from the various Aeldari factions - which was the entire point of the Ynnari! Good work GW! Mad


Yes i totally agree.

Its a real shame that players feel the need to bring the most over powered and uncreative lists in the first place. Poor fire dragons never get seen around the gaming circuits i frequent, or spiders. Just freakin Warithguard scythes and psker jetbikes.

But in defence of GW their new policy of " listening to the community" is a bad move IMO. They created this universe without the internet and forums barking orders at them so they should stick to what they feel is best. Im part of "the community" too and i KNOW im totally bias to Truekin, because well lets face it....they are simply the best faction! And i agree about not knowing what Ynnari will be able to do when their codex comes out, could be simply insane!

Would be nice to see a powerful HQ or lord of war choice for us in the new codex, but as they stand my Truekin havent struggled in this edition, so thankyou GW for giving us some power whilst we wait for our book.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Sat Nov 18 2017, 00:21

I have no problem with GW listening to customers, observing tournament results and making changes to improve the game. What I don't understand though is why they decided to make this huge nerf now. We had the CWE codex only a few weeks ago and there simply hasn't been time to assess whether that codex made playing Ynnari a choice rather than a no brainer. Give it time, assess the situation and see where we are in a few months time. If Ynnari are trouncing all comers then by all means nerf away. But there is nowhere near enough data at this stage to support the timing of this nerf.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Sat Nov 18 2017, 11:21

It's kinda easy to see why.
It's called hype management. They want to push the sales of the CWE codex by dissuading the few players that didn't already do it that Ynnari is now a thing of the past.

Ynnari increased their focused sales of Wraiths and Reapers dramatically. They don't intend to sale those anymore. Now they wish to promote other units, that people don't already own en masse. Those units are Fire Prisms, Rangers, possibly Striking Scorpions...

It's just a marketing move. Just like selling the Gangs of Commorragh while the Reavers were still a top unit, then nerfing the Reavers to the ground. They don't want a single strategy to be top-meta for long, because that's bad for sales.

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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Sat Nov 18 2017, 13:31

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I have no problem with GW listening to customers, observing tournament results and making changes to improve the game. What I don't understand though is why they decided to make this huge nerf now. We had the CWE codex only a few weeks ago and there simply hasn't been time to assess whether that codex made playing Ynnari a choice rather than a no brainer. Give it time, assess the situation and see where we are in a few months time. If Ynnari are trouncing all comers then by all means nerf away. But there is nowhere near enough data at this stage to support the timing of this nerf.

Yes agreed, until we see some table hours is all speculative ( math hammer aside ).

But isnt listening to the community what caused this nerf? Majority of players would be Imperial right? who hate Ynnari. Hence why i dont think they should let the communities opinions override their own decisions all the time, i dont mean they shouldnt take on board our thoughts and ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Sun Nov 19 2017, 02:55

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's kinda easy to see why.
It's called hype management. They want to push the sales of the CWE codex by dissuading the few players that didn't already do it that Ynnari is now a thing of the past.

Ynnari increased their focused sales of Wraiths and Reapers dramatically. They don't intend to sale those anymore. Now they wish to promote other units, that people don't already own en masse. Those units are Fire Prisms, Rangers, possibly Striking Scorpions...

It's just a marketing move. Just like selling the Gangs of Commorragh while the Reavers were still a top unit, then nerfing the Reavers to the ground. They don't want a single strategy to be top-meta for long, because that's bad for sales.

I deeply hope that isnt true. But its very plausible.

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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Mon Dec 18 2017, 03:17

Okay, this might be thread necromancy, but I've been keeping an eye on the Games Workshop website FAQs, and I have yet to see this. Is this a thing? I've seen it mentioned at BOLS too
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Mon Dec 18 2017, 04:47

@Aschen wrote:
Okay, this might be thread necromancy, but I've been keeping an eye on the Games Workshop website FAQs, and I have yet to see this.  Is this a thing?  I've seen it mentioned at BOLS too

Yep. It's in the most recent Xenos 1 FAQ.
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Mon Dec 18 2017, 05:32

@Burnage wrote:
@Aschen wrote:
Okay, this might be thread necromancy, but I've been keeping an eye on the Games Workshop website FAQs, and I have yet to see this.  Is this a thing?  I've seen it mentioned at BOLS too

Yep. It's in the most recent Xenos 1 FAQ.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos1_ENG.pdf

This is all I get from the official website. Thats so weird!
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PostSubject: Re: Huge Ynnari/Strength from Death nerf   Mon Dec 18 2017, 22:20

@Aschen wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Aschen wrote:
Okay, this might be thread necromancy, but I've been keeping an eye on the Games Workshop website FAQs, and I have yet to see this.  Is this a thing?  I've seen it mentioned at BOLS too

Yep. It's in the most recent Xenos 1 FAQ.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos1_ENG.pdf

This is all I get from the official website.  Thats so weird!

That's because they are on Warhammer Community site not games-workshop.com.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
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