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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Fri Nov 24 2017, 10:47

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Wyches could get AP-1 to help them kill light infantry.

Hellions on the other hand would interfere with incubi if they received heavy AP.

True! I neglected the incubi among my thoughts.

This does get to a significant problem with our army though: between Wyches, Wracks, Bloodbrides, Incubi, Hellions, Reavers, Grotesques, Mandrakes and Talos, we are not exactly short of melee options. The hard part is, of course, avoiding excessive overlap. Each unit needs to be able to do something better than the others, some gimmick that helps it stand out from the crowd.

Honestly, I think that Hellions being the fast glass hammer to the incubi's heavy shock troops might be the best we can hope for since we have so many units in a similar role, which makes it inevitable that they are going to be vying to carve out ever smaller and more specialized niches.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Fri Nov 24 2017, 14:44

Mm I don't think that hellions getting AP to match that of the Incubi would cause them to overlap into the Incubi territory of elite hunters ... Honestly if they got that I would use them for melee tank hunting or character hunting... +1 str drug and ap-3 would give us a unit that won't just tie up tanks in melee but with the 2 damage would actually be a threat, plus having a little bit of overlap isn't a bad thing cause if we rely on only one unit to do a certain type of job what do we do if for some reason (bad rolls) that unit fails and dies ... Would kinda like to have a second different unit that can pick up the slack a little bit ...
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Stea1k
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Fri Nov 24 2017, 18:11

I would like to see the Voidraven Bomber given some improvements. Specifically, I would like to see the Void Lance made relevant, and the Dark Scythe more consistent.

These are the specifics I am thinking of:

Void Lance: S12
Actually makes it a stronger Dark Lance, rather than a renamed Dark Lance.

Dark Scythe: Assault 3, Damage: 2
Just make it a straight up stronger Disintegrator Cannon.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Fri Nov 24 2017, 20:42

@Stea1k wrote:
I would like to see the Voidraven Bomber given some improvements. Specifically, I would like to see the Void Lance made relevant, and the Dark Scythe more consistent.

I recently played against a Tau army, and was amazed that their bomber can basically do what our bomber does... but it gets to do it every turn.

So, I think that void mines should be either unlimited, or, at the very least, bombers should have more than one.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sat Nov 25 2017, 03:48

I did put up a while ago that I thought the bomber should have "bomb pods" that work a bit like the missile pods where you get a different selection of bombs and it drops D6 or D3 of the selected.bomb on the target unit that it has flown over ... But idk how well that would go down.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sat Nov 25 2017, 10:00

If the void mine lost a little bit of its punch in exchange for being able to use it once each turn, that wouldn't be bad.

Though, @krayd, I must ask HOW similar the Tau bomber is...

And what it's called.

I have the Xenos 2 index, but I know the fish-cattle not.

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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sat Nov 25 2017, 15:02

Difference is that the Tau Bomber rolls one die per model in the unit, up to a max 10, with no bonus on vehicles or monsters, and only does a mortal wound on a 5+ instead of our 3+.

I'd be ok giving up the bonus to monster and vehicles rule, and wound on a 4+, with no max on the number of models in a unit.

I.E. Roll one die per model, on a 4+ take a mortal wound, each movement phase
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Stea1k
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sat Nov 25 2017, 19:24

What about a unique Dark Eldar Stratagem? Make it mechanically identical to "repair, refuel, rearm", but spends 1 command point for the return and rearm, but doesn't repair the bomber.

Add a "path of command" HQ to your army and begin bombing runs.
This would also deny attacks on the bomber while killing off targets.

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sat Nov 25 2017, 20:19

After seeing the Chapter Approved leaks, the only item on my wishlist is to not to let the weak Dark Eldar showing be a foreshadowing of things to come.

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sat Nov 25 2017, 22:40

@SushiBoy013 wrote:
After seeing the Chapter Approved leaks, the only item on my wishlist is to not to let the weak Dark Eldar showing be a foreshadowing of things to come.

ja stimmt
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sun Nov 26 2017, 21:49

Had a thought for the huskblade, see what you guys think:

Range: Melee
Strength: User
AP: -2
Damage: 1
Special: Against non-vehicles, a Huskblade always wounds on 2+ and inflicts 3 damage.

This makes the Husk Blade our answer to the power fist for the Archon. It lacks the flexibility of the fist by being all but worthless against vehicles, but on the flip side it doesn't have the -1 to hit either. Keep it at 10 points, I think, since it does have worse AP and the limited scope compared to the fist.

I personally feel that this makes it feel like it is described in the fluff, a weapon so insanely deadly that even a single scratch will kill you. The relatively low AP leaves the Succubus to be our high AP HQ, making sure there isn't too much overlap there.
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Sun Nov 26 2017, 23:37

I really like this for the huskblade. I have missed the Archon actually have some teeth in CC.
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 03:04

I'd really like me some nice Huskblade rules and Squidmaster nailed it!
Hope we get something like that, because my Archon has one
<<<

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 14:03

For what it's worth, the stats for the Parasite's Kiss are much better than I thought it would be - especially since it's basically a free replacement for a splinter pistol. (12", Pistol 2, AP -2, D2, wounds non vehicles on 2+)
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 14:13

@krayd wrote:
For what it's worth, the stats for the Parasite's Kiss are much better than I thought it would be - especially since it's basically a free replacement for a splinter pistol.  (12", Pistol 2, AP -2, D2, wounds non vehicles on 2+)

As it's our only option for a relic and it's free then you might as well take it. It's obviously better than a splinter pistol and cheaper than a blast pistol.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 20:46

If the relic replaces the item in question and is a "free" upgrade does that mean the models total points is actually less because it no longer has the splinter Pistol? Or does the stinger pistol cost the same as a splinter Pistol?
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 20:56

If your using this as a replacement for a splinter pistol, but you would normally take a stinger then you'd be saving points

Is that what you mean?
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 21:08

Yes yes it is
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 21:28

@FuelDrop wrote:
Had a thought for the huskblade, see what you guys think:

Range: Melee
Strength: User
AP: -2
Damage: 1
Special: Against non-vehicles, a Huskblade always wounds on 2+ and inflicts 3 damage.

This makes the Husk Blade our answer to the power fist for the Archon. It lacks the flexibility of the fist by being all but worthless against vehicles, but on the flip side it doesn't have the -1 to hit either. Keep it at 10 points, I think, since it does have worse AP and the limited scope compared to the fist.

I personally feel that this makes it feel like it is described in the fluff, a weapon so insanely deadly that even a single scratch will kill you. The relatively low AP leaves the Succubus to be our high AP HQ, making sure there isn't too much overlap there.

Imo, the Huskblade and the Soul-trap need to work in conjunction. I think they only develop their full potential when used together. They could create the perfect dynamic for a true DE like HQ.

A high-risk/high-reward unit that starts out weak with S3 but gradually gains strength by killing enemies. For each killed model, he gains +1S on a 5+. If the model was a character or monster, it works on a 2+. Or you could choose to restore a wound instead.
Naturally, the Huskblade should inflict more wounds on non-vehicles.

The Succubus should be our straight up beatsick, while the Archon should stick out with lots of options. He should have to choice to become a support character (via buffs, active abilities or debuffs) or be a specialist melee fighter.

Edit: To make it clear, I think you made a good and reasonable suggestion but I'd love to see the old soul-trap mechanic back. It would be just soooo fitting in terms of gameplay and fluff.

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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 21:52

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
@FuelDrop wrote:
Had a thought for the huskblade, see what you guys think:

Range: Melee
Strength: User
AP: -2
Damage: 1
Special: Against non-vehicles, a Huskblade always wounds on 2+ and inflicts 3 damage.

This makes the Husk Blade our answer to the power fist for the Archon. It lacks the flexibility of the fist by being all but worthless against vehicles, but on the flip side it doesn't have the -1 to hit either. Keep it at 10 points, I think, since it does have worse AP and the limited scope compared to the fist.

I personally feel that this makes it feel like it is described in the fluff, a weapon so insanely deadly that even a single scratch will kill you. The relatively low AP leaves the Succubus to be our high AP HQ, making sure there isn't too much overlap there.

Imo, the Huskblade and the Soul-trap need to work in conjunction. I think they only develop their full potential when used together. They could create the perfect dynamic for a true DE like HQ.

A high-risk/high-reward unit that starts out weak with S3 but gradually gains strength by killing enemies. For each killed model, he gains +1S on a 5+. If the model was a character or monster, it works on a 2+. Or you could choose to restore a wound instead.
Naturally, the Huskblade should inflict more wounds on non-vehicles.

The Succubus should be our straight up beatsick, while the Archon should stick out with lots of options. He should have to choice to become a support character (via buffs, active abilities or debuffs) or be a specialist melee fighter.

Edit: To make it clear, I think you made a good and reasonable suggestion but I'd love to see the old soul-trap mechanic back. It would be just soooo fitting in terms of gameplay and fluff.

Maybe make the Soul Trap +1 attack when you kill an enemy character or monster? Faster, not stronger? That way it also works if you take the cheap version and grab an Agonizer.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:00

@FuelDrop wrote:
@The Strange Dark One wrote:
...

Maybe make the Soul Trap +1 attack when you kill an enemy character or monster? Faster, not stronger? That way it also works if you take the cheap version and grab an Agonizer.

I am not opposed to that. But I see that as implementation detail that would need some mathhammering. I think the +1S is quite significant in the beginning, whereas the +1A has more potential in the long run.

Mind you, the change from wounding at a 5+ to a 4+ means a 50% increased chance (33% vs 50%).
And the change from a 4+ to a 3+ still means an increase of 33%.

Whereas an increase in attack means a 20% increase at start. But as you said, this buff affects more weapons. And unlike the +1S, the attack is more reliable. After all, it does not matter whether you have S5, S6 or S7 when you attack T4 targets.


But as I said, the details need to be calculated against the various targets (depending on what exactly you want to achieve in the first place). All I personally want is a reward for killing models (but I vaguely suspect we get most out of a Huskblade with stacking strength).

Edit: Some extra information.

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Last edited by The Strange Dark One on Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:06; edited 2 times in total
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:02

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
@FuelDrop wrote:
@The Strange Dark One wrote:
...

Maybe make the Soul Trap +1 attack when you kill an enemy character or monster? Faster, not stronger? That way it also works if you take the cheap version and grab an Agonizer.

I am not opposed to that. But I see that as implementation detail that would need some mathhammering. I think the +1S is quite significant in the beginning.

Mind you, the change from wounding at a 5+ to a 4+ means a 50% increased chance (33% vs 50%).
And the change from a 4+ to a 3+ still means an increase of 33%.
Whereas an increase in attack means a 20% increase at start. But as you said, this buff affects more weapons.


But as I said, the details need to be calculated against the various targets (depending on what exactly you want to achieve in the first place). All I personally want is a reward for killing models (but I vaguely suspect we get most out of a Huskblade with stacking strength).

Why stack strength at all? Just give +1 to wound per character or monster killed. Much less math and more linear reward, and also works with other weapons Smile
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:16

I certainly wouldn't discard that as an ability if GW would handle it to us. But I see the Haemonculus as bulwark that absorbs damage. For the rest of our HQ's I'd prefer enhanced killyness. Some additional "hammer" part for our "glass" army Razz

And I doubt the Archon would last very long even with that buff. When fighting against weapons that deal multi wounds, he will not survive for long. An extra wound here or there is likely not to matter much. I'd prefer if we can squeeze out as much damage as we can before the Archon dies inevtiably.

Btw. I also extended my previous answer with some additional thoughts.

Edit: Especially when you are fighting against another character. I think in this situation the Archon is more likely to survive if he can kill his opponent faster. And you might simply not have suitable targets around to regain wounds. Or might not be able to afford killing other units instead of focusing down the character (or monster).

Edit 2: I really don't want to appear like I only accept my own ideas but I am simply concerned that a wrong approach can lead to disappointing results on the actual table.
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:20

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I certainly wouldn't discard that as an ability if GW would handle it to us. But I see the Haemonculus as bulwark that absorbs damage. For the rest of our HQ's I'd prefer enhanced killyness. Some additional "hammer" part for our "glass" army Razz

And I doubt the Archon would last very long even with that buff. When fighting against weapons that deal multi wounds, he will not survive for long. An extra wound here or there is likely not to matter much. I'd prefer if we can squeeze out as much damage as we can before the Archon dies inevtiably.

Btw. I also extended my previous answer with some additional thoughts.

Edit: Especially when you are fighting against another character. I think in this situation the Archon is more likely to survive if he can kill his opponent faster. And you might simply not have suitable targets around to regain wounds. Or might not be able to afford killing other units instead of focusing down the character (or monster).

Edit 2: I really don't want to appear like I only accept my own ideas but I am simply concerned that a wrong approach can lead to disappointing results on the actual table.

I think I might have been unclear. I meant "+1 on melee 'to wound' rolls", not +1 wound. My bad with the previous phrasing Razz
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PostSubject: Re: my wishlist   Mon Nov 27 2017, 22:47

I was thinking today about Ravagers, especially in regard to the "Stationary shoot twice" rule. Could we have something that flipped that around, granting bonuses to hit, extra shots, rerolls, etc when we move more than half distance? I feel like it would encourage a very fast pace, non-stationary platform.

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