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 Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?

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Aschen
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PostSubject: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Wed Nov 15 2017, 11:05

I dont have my index with me to get the exact wording, but the open topped rule alludes to models in transports being effected by a vehicle falling back. Is this an open-topped specific rule?

I.E. A transport vehicle is charged and not destroyed. During its turn, it falls back, unloads the troops, and the troops assault what was just in combat with the tank.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Wed Nov 15 2017, 11:27

If any transport moves (including fall back) it can't unload its troops.

I think the rule is referring to not being able to shoot if a vehicle falls back b/c the troops don't have "fly"

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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Wed Nov 15 2017, 11:33

@RedRegicide wrote:
If any transport moves (including fall back) it can't unload its troops.
Thats a rule I missed... yeah. Can you unload troops while in close combat?


@RedRegicide wrote:
I think the rule is referring to not being able to shoot if a vehicle falls back b/c the troops don't have "fly"

yes. but, if the troops cant shoot (because they dont have fly) its because the vehicle fell back. And that would mean that the troops inside are effected by the vehicle falling back
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Wed Nov 15 2017, 11:33

You can't disembark AFTER you moved the vehicle.

What you CAN do is disembark units from an engaged vehicle. And if you do, they don't get affected by the "disembark" malus the vehicle would get.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Thu Nov 16 2017, 02:43

Your options with an flying open-topped transport tied up in melee are:
1) Stay in the transport and stay in combat - passengers can shoot pistol weapons only
2) Stay in the transport and fall back - transport can shoot because FLY but passengers cannot
3) Disembark passengers - passengers can shoot because they didn't fall back. If the transport falls back it can shoot, or it could stay in melee if you want to avoid overwatch.

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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Thu Nov 16 2017, 10:42

@Kantalla wrote:
2) Stay in the transport and fall back - transport can shoot because FLY but passengers cannot

Just to be neatpicking, if the passengers have fly, they can shoot even if in a vehicule that has fallen back.
Thinking about scourges in a tantalus ^^

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Thu Nov 16 2017, 20:33

@masamune wrote:


Just to be neatpicking, if the passengers have fly, they can shoot even if in a vehicule that has fallen back.
Thinking about scourges in a tantalus ^^

Although i agree that it's the most logical interpretation of the rule, and it would make perfect sense, the rules state "Note that the passengers cannot shoot if this model falls back, even though it has fly", and doesn't say much about the passengers being able to do it if they have fly.

Has this been FAQed ? I wouldn't want to be the nitpicker here, but i'm sure a lot of people could use this to prevent your 15 scourges from firing their 12 Dark lances.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Fri Nov 17 2017, 10:26

It hasn't been FAQed, but the Open Topped rule makes it clear that passengers in a Falling Back transport can not fire.
The passengers, regardless of whether they have Fly or not, are off the board. Their special rules don't matter.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Fri Nov 17 2017, 10:55

I read the open-topped rule as the embarked units being subject to the various movement restrictions in their own right, rather than mirroring the transport. I'd never considered this in respect of scourges and falling back to be honest, but the various weapon types are subject to movement restrictions in their own right (heavy, assault) so why wouldn't units? I interpreted the final sentence about the passengers not shooting after a fall back even though the raider can as affirming the units are penalised by their own keywords/rules and not the raiders rather than it being a specific rule itself - used as an example as it is a scenario where the restrictions would be different for standard infantry and the flying vehicle.
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Fri Nov 17 2017, 11:06

I could understand if it stuck with just "under the same modifiers and restrictions as the vehicle", but the fact that the last sentence makes no reference to special rules, and just says "Note that the passengers shoot if this model Falls back, even though the X itself can" reads to me as a generalised restrictions regardless of what rules the passengers may have.

I may throw this one at the GW FB page, to see what they say.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Do units in vehicles count as falling back, if a vehicle falls back?   Fri Nov 17 2017, 11:08

As is often the case, it can be interpreted differently. It's a small grey area and one GW probably didn't consider, as venoms and raiders can't carry any flying infantry. Probably more likely the Tantalus carrying scourges is an oversight and actually shouldn't be able too either.

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