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 Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Sun Nov 12 2017, 23:08

I mean your cab weapon choices were not helping matters. Splinter Cannons and Shredders are both truly terrible options, and if you are ground pounding anyway just bring more bodies. More firepower for less cost.

I am not convinced that the hellions were a bad choice against nids, but tbh this list feels really frail, slow, and lacking and noticeable punch.

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Mon Nov 13 2017, 04:19

@FuelDrop wrote:
I mean your cab weapon choices were not helping matters. Splinter Cannons and Shredders are both truly terrible options, and if you are ground pounding anyway just bring more bodies. More firepower for less cost.

I am not convinced that the hellions were a bad choice against nids, but tbh this list feels really frail, slow, and lacking and noticeable punch.

Still trying to understand what a 'punch' looks like to the community. He is coming with 60 terms (dropping them 9" away from my front line) with a 5+ save, and 35 genestealers, 20 of those with a 5+++.

I guess the question is: what is the community using to combat mobs? Speed and distance are a challenging thing to create given that the majority of his army is popping up 9" away or running the length of the board.

The terms are a strong reminder that poison weapons fail when the unit you're firing at is T3, as many other armies are wounding on a 3+.

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Mon Nov 13 2017, 04:41

Quote :
I guess the question is: what is the community using to combat mobs? Speed and distance are a challenging thing to create given that the majority of his army is popping up 9" away or running the length of the board.

Screens seem to be an effective way to combat this approach. Khymera for cheap bodies, or Flocks for a screen that can keep up to our boats.

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Mon Nov 13 2017, 04:45

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
I guess the question is: what is the community using to combat mobs? Speed and distance are a challenging thing to create given that the majority of his army is popping up 9" away or running the length of the board.

Screens seem to be an effective way to combat this approach. Khymera for cheap bodies, or Flocks for a screen that can keep up to our boats.

I do appreciate it, TheBaconPope. I brought 2 razorwing flocks with 9 flocks each (too much, in retrospect) to do precisely this. New 'Nids have have a stratagem or it is a part of the Kraken Fleet's trait...but his genestealers simply disengaged, fell back (forward) and engaged my primary troops.

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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Mon Nov 13 2017, 17:04

try 3 DL/SC razorwings, 3 dissie ravagers, deep striking vanilla scourges and dl scourges. also i feel our raider is a waste of points
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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 01:15

@doriii wrote:
also i feel our raider is a waste of points

I feel like this is the dissenting opinion...but I'm falling into this wheelhouse quickly as they continue to get mowed down and run down in an increasingly simple manner.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 01:23

You're just now reaching that point? I've already stopped playing 8th edition entirely because my local meta consists of exclusively codex armies. It is not fun playing a game you know you have no chance of winning every single week. I've been playing 7th edition with my friend for the past month or so because the power level of the codex armies is so difficult to surmount.

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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 03:21

@TeenageAngst wrote:
You're just now reaching that point? I've already stopped playing 8th edition entirely because my local meta consists of exclusively codex armies. It is not fun playing a game you know you have no chance of winning every single week. I've been playing 7th edition with my friend for the past month or so because the power level of the codex armies is so difficult to surmount.

Yeah, I have been fortunate that up until recently I haven't had to deal with this as my gaming group has predominantly been Ork and Tyranid players. But the beatdown I received with the new Tyranid codex was significant.

Going to give it another shot..but I'm afraid the disparity in power created by unique stratagems, traits, etc...may be too much to overcome until a proper codex is provided.

To that end, I really hope GW doesn't provide us simply with a couple of warlord traits and a stratagem in the Chapter Approved. To my mind, it would be a waste of ink; in a vacuum, it isn't going to accomplish anything. We need a full codex with point changes, etc...

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 05:54

Given the latest thing GW did with DE is nerf them, I am not getting my hopes up...

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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 09:28

@TeenageAngst wrote:
You're just now reaching that point? I've already stopped playing 8th edition entirely because my local meta consists of exclusively codex armies. It is not fun playing a game you know you have no chance of winning every single week. I've been playing 7th edition with my friend for the past month or so because the power level of the codex armies is so difficult to surmount.

Ive been winning against codex's....... We have Gman spam lists even (1-2 storm ravens, with 3-4 razorbacks, ML/LC devs) (AL Khorne armies with Oblits and Havocs) etc...., if your not playing with enough terrain that has multi levels, los blocking, etc...


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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 12:39

Yeah, my index lists have been beating the snot out of Raven Guard every time I go up against them, the difference between codex and index this edition is nowhere near the difference between the best and worst of the 7th ed codecies.
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 13:16

@Imateria wrote:
Yeah, my index lists have been beating the snot out of Raven Guard every time I go up against them, the difference between codex and index this edition is nowhere near the difference between the best and worst of the 7th ed codecies.

This, 7th to 8th differences were insane.

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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 19:47

I think the Chapter approved will give us a little more then what has been leaked, if not, it's still something that's gives us at least a small power boost, I can't imagine chapter approved getting us to the level of codecies cause at that point ... Why even bother with a codex? They wouldn't be able to hype it and there wouldn't really be anything new for the players in it.
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 22:17

Points balancing will probably be the biggest thing, although that creates an issue for those ALREADY with a codex, because then they will need 3 books: Codex for main entries, Chapter Approved for their updated points values, and the Index in case they want to use a unit or configuration that GW decided to arbitrarily axe.

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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Tue Nov 14 2017, 23:01

That's not really surprising. That's way GW has always rolled. Consider it the first patch of 8th edition . Hopefully, it will be similarly priced to an index. Either way, I know I'll be picking one up.
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Wed Nov 15 2017, 22:52

Sushiboy, as I see it, two things were at play here. One is your list is hugely sub optimal, and his is really quite a powerful list with a real sense of purpose.

The positive is his list has a sense of purpose that you can circumvent to your benefit. Which is his deep striking.
You know he is going to do it, just like any other deepstriking army, 9" away and then he is going to hit you hard, whether that is assault or shooting depends on the army, but throwaway units never change.
If you have the throw away unit (35 point kabalites are my favourite, but they are what I own) 18" away from your next closest unit then the enemy can't ds between them. This is a huge buffer, that shooty gaunts can't get past on the ds turn.
From the sounds of it you expected your ds barrier to last past the first turn the enemy ds's. Just don't plan for that, use the extra points savings to buy more firepower to blow them away once they ds.

But and this brings me to the point of raiders/venoms. They are transport that let you run away. And redeploy so you can annihilate one squad while taking little damage from another (or a charge). Additionally, against small arms fire like devilgaunts they are amazingly resilient. Just like how your ravagers do right now.

On your deployment, how far from the enemy are you deploying? Can you make it further? Say 40"? The further you are from the stealers the longer it will take for them to support the trygon.

All this said, you still have a tough fight in front of you, as there is a lot of target saturation there. So many flyrants/gaunts/trygons so little time.
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Wed Nov 15 2017, 23:31

@lament.config wrote:
That's not really surprising. That's way GW has always rolled. Consider it the first patch of 8th edition . Hopefully, it will be similarly priced to an index. Either way, I know I'll be picking one up.

The points updates really should be free. I'd be pretty irritated if I had pay for a patch...
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Thu Nov 16 2017, 00:57

DSing gaunts with the trygon need 9" bubble? I saw on Tabletop Tactics the mawloc didnt give a damn, wasnt sure what trygon rules were

If so, you def want to spread your units out so that the table is covered by 8.9" radius circles of coverage. Thats a cool way of thinking about it, thanks Lord Splata

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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Thu Nov 16 2017, 10:44

The maps doesn't give a damn, but gants sure do! Plus a mawloc can't charge after ds (although it isn't good at combat, so even if it could you wouldn't worry too much)
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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Thu Nov 16 2017, 10:50

@LordSplata wrote:
The maps doesn't give a damn, but gants sure do! Plus a mawloc can't charge after ds (although it isn't good at combat, so even if it could you wouldn't worry too much)

I remember back in the day, when the Mawloc was first introduced. A large blast S 6 AP 2 when it deep strikes, the ability to burrow and restrike afterwards... those were the days. What you all looking at? Get off my lawn!

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PostSubject: Re: Welp...just fought 8th edition Tyranids   Thu Nov 16 2017, 11:17

@RedRegicide wrote:
DSing gaunts with the trygon need 9" bubble? I saw on Tabletop Tactics the mawloc didnt give a damn, wasnt sure what trygon rules were

If so, you def want to spread your units out so that the table is covered by 8.9" radius circles of coverage. Thats a cool way of thinking about it, thanks Lord Splata

Jormungandr has a stratagem that lets your DS around Ravagers and Mawlocs. BUT that unit has to be fully within 3" of said Ravagers/Mawloc's

There also is a stratagem to DS a already "reserved" unit within 6" of a Lictor (outside of 9" of enemies). SO you can use the Jormungandr Stratagem to put a 30 man unit in reserves then DS onto the DSing lictor b.c there is no way to get a 30man unit an other way to DS outside of Gargoyles.

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