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 Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems

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krayd
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PostSubject: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 20:27

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 20:31

I mean, if we're only getting one strategem, of course it's going to be Webway Portals.

They certainly don't look bad, but I'm more excited for points updates.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 20:38

What I'm wondering is if, let's say you take a craftworld detachment and a drukhari detachment - can you use 1 webway stratagem for each? Or will things be worded (or FAQ'd) in such a way that all of the various Eldar faction webway stratagems can't stack?
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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 21:24

Relic- Pistol 2 R12 S1 AP-2 D2 wounds on a 2+ vehicles on a 6+. For each model killed bearer gains a wound

Am I reading that correctly? It doesn't say heals a wound but gains a wound... could we essentially kill units to raise our max number of wounds? Kill 3 models, you now have 8 wounds?

I doubt it is that, but thats how I am reading it.
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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 21:38

Well, looks like Kabals haven't gotten any support in terms of Warlord Traits :/
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 21:41

Can anyone help me see the use of webeay portal as written? Because as of now I can't think of anything with perhaps the exception of grotesques that's worth deepstriking.

I was hoping to be able to deepstrike a squad of Talos with a Haemonculus as a big scary distraction, but it only affects infantry, bikes and beasts.

Overall it seems rather "meh" to me.
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Vathek
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:07

Meh. Nothing particularly great. The free pistol upgrade is ok. The warlord traits are ok. The webway portal is meh. Considering c offices come with a million stratagems I'd hope fo r more than one.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:08

@Sarkesian wrote:
Relic- Pistol 2 R12 S1 AP-2 D2 wounds on a 2+ vehicles on a 6+. For each model killed bearer gains a wound

Am I reading that correctly? It doesn't say heals a wound but gains a wound... could we essentially kill units to raise our max number of wounds? Kill 3 models, you now have 8 wounds?

I doubt it is that, but thats how I am reading it.

It's how it is written, but keep in mind it's just rumored and not the actual rule as it is really written.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:26

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
Can anyone help me see the use of webeay portal as written? Because as of now I can't think of anything with perhaps the exception of grotesques that's worth deepstriking.

I was hoping to be able to deepstrike a squad of Talos with a Haemonculus as a big scary distraction, but it only affects infantry, bikes and beasts.

Overall it seems rather "meh" to me.

Clawed Fiends, Khymerae and Hellions being able to charge on the first turn make them phenomenally more attractive to me.

Just imagine six Clawed Fiends or twenty Hellions popping up 9 inches away from the enemy's key units...
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:33

It's just sad that as always, pain engines can't use the webway. I miss my beloved Dark Artisan.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:39

@Burnage wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
Can anyone help me see the use of webeay portal as written? Because as of now I can't think of anything with perhaps the exception of grotesques that's worth deepstriking.

I was hoping to be able to deepstrike a squad of Talos with a Haemonculus as a big scary distraction, but it only affects infantry, bikes and beasts.

Overall it seems rather "meh" to me.

Clawed Fiends, Khymerae and Hellions being able to charge on the first turn make them phenomenally more attractive to me.

Just imagine six Clawed Fiends or twenty Hellions popping up 9 inches away from the enemy's key units...


Hellion I disagree with unless they get a massive points deduction. They only have a ~30ish percent chance of making that turn one charge. If they fail, they're all dead and theyre dead easily leaving you scratching your head 340 points shorter.

Clawed fiends is an attractive option except for the fact you need a beast master with them, meaning you're throwing down 3 CP for these two units. It could be worth It, but I'm not entirely convinced. I'd need to run clawed fiends more to really get an opinion on them.

But all that being said, it's sad that our most exciting stratagem is just... not even exciting to theorycraft about.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:44

I think I’d rather do s blob of grots, incubi or wyches. They can run in and tie up enemies for a turn or two while the rest of my army moves up. Hellions and beasts are already fast enough. Use the CP to replace transports

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 22:56

Why can we only use it once per battle? I mean Raven Guard and Alpha Legion can infiltrate half an army, why is it OP that we deep strike more than one unit?
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 23:05

@RedRegicide wrote:
I think I’d rather do s blob of grots, incubi or wyches. They can run in and tie up enemies for a turn or two while the rest of my army moves up. Hellions and beasts are already fast enough. Use the CP to replace transports

I thought about wyches as well, but the investment you'd be putting into them is far greater than any return you'd get. And again, were left with the problem of just how unreliable a deep strike charge is. The only thing worse than losing ~6 wyches to overwatch is losing 6~ wyches to overwatch and failing the charge.
If you fail, the wyches are dead and you're left reconsidering your life choices.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 23:09

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Why can we only use it once per battle? I mean Raven Guard and Alpha Legion can infiltrate half an army, why is it OP that we deep strike more than one unit?

My thoughts exactly. Why is it so limited, as well? If Tallarn can psudeo-DS a squadron of three russes and ignore movement of heavy weapons, I don't see why we can't have a Trueborn Venom drop down at 9"

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Fri Nov 10 2017, 23:23

If that's all we're getting out of Chapter Approved then I very much doubt that I'll bother buying it.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 01:14

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
@RedRegicide wrote:
I think I’d rather do s blob of grots, incubi or wyches. They can run in and tie up enemies for a turn or two while the rest of my army moves up. Hellions and beasts are already fast enough. Use the CP to replace transports

I thought about wyches as well, but the investment you'd be putting into them is far greater than any return you'd get. And again, were left with the problem of just how unreliable a deep strike charge is. The only thing worse than losing ~6 wyches to overwatch is losing 6~ wyches to overwatch and failing the charge.
If you fail, the wyches are dead and you're left reconsidering your life choices.

What if we go Beasts for turn 1 since they don’t get any bonuses anyway? Or do wyches turn 2 so we have re rolls. By turn 2 our other assault units will be close enough to help.

Alternatively, we could DS a disgusting amount of kabalites. 80 posion shots

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 01:48

@RedRegicide wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
@RedRegicide wrote:
I think I’d rather do s blob of grots, incubi or wyches. They can run in and tie up enemies for a turn or two while the rest of my army moves up. Hellions and beasts are already fast enough. Use the CP to replace transports

I thought about wyches as well, but the investment you'd be putting into them is far greater than any return you'd get. And again, were left with the problem of just how unreliable a deep strike charge is. The only thing worse than losing ~6 wyches to overwatch is losing 6~ wyches to overwatch and failing the charge.
If you fail, the wyches are dead and you're left reconsidering your life choices.

What if we go Beasts for turn 1 since they don’t get any bonuses anyway? Or do wyches turn 2 so we have re rolls. By turn 2 our other assault units will be close enough to help.

Alternatively, we could DS a disgusting amount of kabalites. 80 posion shots


I think dropping 40 bare-bones kaballites would be pretty hilarious, actually. For only 280 points you have a 40 man blob that your opponent needs to deal with. That's some ork levels of spam.
Still, it's personally not the play style I'm looking for with dark eldar; I like our vehicles going fast and our scary monsters appearing from nowhere more than I do a disgusting, poisonous, massed wave of kabllite bodies.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 02:20

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
Why can we only use it once per battle? I mean Raven Guard and Alpha Legion can infiltrate half an army, why is it OP that we deep strike more than one unit?

My thoughts exactly. Why is it so limited, as well? If Tallarn can psudeo-DS a squadron of three russes and ignore movement of heavy weapons, I don't see why we can't have a Trueborn Venom drop down at 9"

I imagine that, at least in the eventual codex, it will be set up like the Craftworld codex, with one stratagem for 'webway strike', which affects infantry, bikes, and beasts, and something that is the equivalent of the craftworld 'cloudstrike' stratagem, which affects vehicles.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 02:23

I think I’ll def be paying the three points.

Question is: beasts for turn 1 distraction

Or elite units dropping in turn 3 so they have re rolls and +1 to hit

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 03:17

I'd definitely run a large squad of Clawed Fiends and a Beastmaster so that I don't have to lose a couple of them as they run across the board. The main problem is that they are the only units I see any real value in using this strategem on, Grotesques are do the same thing but wors eand for more points whils tother infantry can use transports. Hellions might gain as they generally don't survive getting across the board but I'd leave them until turn 2 so they get the re-roll to charges and the lack of AP on Helglaives is still a problem.

Generally I would have much prefered it if they gave us Cloud Strike rather than Webway Assault.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 03:34

I'm reserving judgement till I see official writing...but for the time being, I'm underwhelmed to say the least. I'm truly hoping we see some significant retooling of the mechanics/points of our army. I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling from this.

1) So my wyches are generating a few more hits that still don't wound.
2) I'm using a webway portal to plop a unit of <insert any infantry, beast, bike squad here> 9" away
   from units that I want to be 24"-36" away from given significant inability to generate wounds in
   melee
3) I'm not sure what I'm suppose to take away from the wording of the coven ability. Is that the
   warlord trait? My 5 wound warlord can generate up to D3 wounds?
4) Like many have stated...the rumored wording on the pistol's ability to "GAIN" wounds sounds
   fishy...so I have to call into question the wording/relevancy of all of these.

Again...I'll wait to see what officially is released, but oof - this is not setting a good precedence imo.

EDIT: I always thought the errata was an opportunity to implement changes that will address major discrepancies & disparities...obviously our Codex isn't out yet, but it begs the question: why even give us..this?

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 03:38

Quote :
1) So my wyches are generating a few more hits that still don't wound.

The author of these certainly wasn't gifted with a significant degree of eloquence or specificity, for sure. I'm fairly certain that trait for the Cults is for the Warlord only. A needed boost, sure, but hardly enough to make Cults viable.

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 03:42

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
1) So my wyches are generating a few more hits that still don't wound.

The author of these certainly wasn't gifted with a significant degree of eloquence or specificity, for sure. I'm fairly certain that trait for the Cults is for the Warlord only. A needed boost, sure, but hardly enough to make Cults viable.

You shed light on my first issue: are these COVEN/CULT/KABAL specific, or Warlord specific...because it kinda alludes to both.

That somehow even feels like a bigger disappointment if it is solely for the Cult warlord. My love for generating hits is only dwarfed by my love for generating wounds, and currently wyches can do the former in spades and the latter none-at-all.

Sorry. Going to take a moment to myself in the corner...

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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved Rumors - warlord traits/relics/stratagems   Sat Nov 11 2017, 03:45

Quote :
You shed light on my first issue: are these COVEN/CULT/KABAL specific, or Warlord specific...because it kinda alludes to both.

Moreover, if these are true, it shows that GW is doubling down on the segregated approach to our sub-factions. As I've stated before, this is concerning to me.

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