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ricorongen
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PostSubject: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Wed Nov 01 2017, 16:43

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/01/codex-tyranids-preview-day-3-commanding-your-swarm-nov-1gw-homepage-post-2/ Hey all, just saw it and was looking into it and a thought occured in me : if they can improve the nids in such a way, what can we expect from a message like this?

better splintercannons? mayby cool new rules for our current cc weapons?

what do you think?

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Wed Nov 01 2017, 16:54

Going by history, they will think we are WAY undercosted as we are now, and make darklances -1 ap d3 wounds and double the price!

In all seriousness, we can expect:
Drastic decrease in pricing of most units (venom especially)
Lower pricing on weapons
DE specific abilities (like being able to disembark AFTER a transport moves)
Strategems like "until the end of the turn, all Drukhari units are at -1 to be hit by shooting weapons. one use only"
Wyches will need to see a 4++ when within 1" of an enemy or they will never see the field. Period.

Stuff like that.

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ricorongen
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Wed Nov 01 2017, 17:48

hope it happens =P or decrease point cost acros the board for us as the (horde) eldar army P

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Wed Nov 01 2017, 19:20

Generally, I think the trend of reducing unit pricing by ~30% across the board will hold true. I expect our transports to get a drastic slash in price, closer probably to 40-50%

I expect that most of our Stradegems will be altered versions of our Craftworld cousins.

My real question is how they will handle our doctrines and auras. I firmly believe that DE will never be competitively viable as long as GW continues to treat us as three different factions contained within the same book.

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SushiBoy013
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 04:15

@TheBaconPope wrote:
I firmly believe that DE will never be competitively viable as long as GW continues to treat us as three different factions contained within the same book.

I couldn't agree more. The variability in our units is limited comparatively to many other major factions, even more so if we're separated by keywords for cults, covens, and kabals. That's a major concern for our army seeing as how GW has placed each in their very separate categories.

I'm hoping to see some increase to our transports' survivability.

I am truly hoping our strategems, etc...aren't simply a foil to CWE as I am not impressed with their codex. Tyranid codex is looking particularly formidable and that both concerns me as well as makes me hopeful for all the reasons already stated. Hopeful, because GW clearly saw a need for a face-lift for 'Nids. Concerned because, well, empirical evidence would suggest we won't see the same type of attention.

What I would like to see:
1. Improved ability to take oncoming fire for our transports
2. Additional improvements to our units ability to shoot from transports
3. Aura abilities reaching across the majority of our units
4. Aura abilities that are significant
5. An ability to defend AT ALL in the psychic phase
6. Improvements to our melee units
7. I would love to see our units be able to drop off of a transport after the transport has moved

I'm hopeful we won't be a foil to the CWE simply because we have little/no access to the psychic phase. I would hope that this would mean GW would enhance us elsewhere.

I'm still optimistic, but as an individual who largely plays again friends with Tyranid armies, I'm dreading the release of their codex.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 04:30

Nothing makes me happier than to play against tyranids! It's such a wonderful feeling to actually get use out of the current poison weapons, and facing tyranids is the perfect use for them!

I'm honestly not expecting anything very creative with our codex. Price drops, and I'm hoping reaver get a HUGE decrease. You'll see a lot of strategems as well, I'm guessing they will use the strategems to address a lot of our problems
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 04:37

I think you are very hopefull if you assume a 30% price decrease across the board.
For a few cheaper units we might get a few points discount which could end up close to 20% (hellions, wyches, reavers, maybe some coven) but for most we can be lucky if we get a 10% in final price.
Our vehicles will not get a discount, only the venom sort of because the splinter cannon will be cheaper or better.
Only thing that might get more then a 20% discount is some weapons.

Don't expect the disembark after moving.

Jeah I also think most of our "flavour" will be in the stratagems not in additional unit specific rules.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 10:28

It's funny how this forum is an endless battle of optimism vs pessimism Smile

Joining the first camp, i'd say we are noticing that every codex so far has seen drastic cuts in points cuts for the lackluster units (as well as some buffs, but mostly points cuts) as well as overall cool stratagems, doctrines and special rules that often multiply the units efficiency by 25, 50 or 100% (think Leman Russ, Fire prism or that crazy Hydra doctrine).

There is no reason to think it won't be the same for us. If Tyrannids get love, everybody will get love.

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 13:12

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's funny how this forum is an endless battle of optimism vs pessimism Smile

Joining the first camp, i'd say we are noticing that every codex so far has seen drastic cuts in points cuts for the lackluster units (as well as some buffs, but mostly points cuts) as well as overall cool stratagems, doctrines and special rules that often multiply the units efficiency by 25, 50 or 100% (think Leman Russ, Fire prism or that crazy Hydra doctrine).

There is no reason to think it won't be the same for us. If Tyrannids get love, everybody will get love.
Completely agreed. And the pessimism really annoys me because Kabals at least really aren't that bad at all.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 13:20

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's funny how this forum is an endless battle of optimism vs pessimism Smile

I think that people continue to play Dark Eldar demonstrates general optimism; I'm not sure pessimism is the right word, either - I think it is fine to discern based on past evidence. What we have seen is regurgitation in special abilities across imperium; I don't think it is big leap to believe we will see some of the same.

In terms of 'getting some love', I think the question is 'how much am I getting, comparatively?'. By no means will any one army get everything they hope and dream for, but if you're defining 'love' as competitive advantage, I think its fair to assume not every army is going to get the same amount of love. The goal (for me) is to see Dark Eldar continue to be a formidable opponent...I don't know if we can make the case for that one way or another until the codex drops; but historically Dark Eldar releases have been somewhat underwhelming.

The Tyranids look to be getting a lot of love from their preview, whereas other armies, less so.

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 13:23

Respectfully, it is a thread asking everyone to speculate regarding what we can glean from the new Tyranid codex. I don't believe there are any right or wrong responses.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 22:48

While disembark after move might be a bit much to hope for, disembark after half move might be a thing (based on how MBTs are getting move half shoot twice).

After feeling extremely disappointed by the craftworlder codex, the new nid leaks are giving me hope that we might get some fluffy Kabal traits.

Unlike some people I am not opposed to having GW treat us as three separate subfactions, provided that we can pick all three faction traits in one FOC and have them apply to the relevant units.

We pay a lot of tradeoffs (Psychic phase, limited units affected by auras, cardboard armour, ect), so in return we should be really good at what we do.

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 22:56

Quote :
Unlike some people I am not opposed to having GW treat us as three separate subfactions, provided that we can pick all three faction traits in one FOC and have them apply to the relevant units.

I'm certainly not opposed to that, in fact, that sounds awesome! I'm more referring to things like auras, where the Archon only buffs Kabal units, Succubi buffs Cult, etc. Certainly they should grant better bonuses to their own units, however the confinement of each HQ to their subfaction takes a chainsaw to synergy in our army.

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 02 2017, 23:02

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
Unlike some people I am not opposed to having GW treat us as three separate subfactions, provided that we can pick all three faction traits in one FOC and have them apply to the relevant units.

I'm certainly not opposed to that, in fact, that sounds awesome! I'm more referring to things like auras, where the Archon only buffs Kabal units, Succubi buffs Cult, etc. Certainly they should grant better bonuses to their own units, however the confinement of each HQ to their subfaction takes a chainsaw to synergy in our army.

Maybe have a lesser effect for those outside of their subfaction? Like, the Archon gives Kabal units within 6" immunity to leadership checks and allows other subfactions to use his leadership of 10?
Succubus gives reroll hit and wound in fight phase for cult units, reroll 1's to hit and wound in fight phase for others? Haemie gives +1 Toughness and FNP for Coven units, just the FNP for others?

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Fri Nov 03 2017, 03:39

@FuelDrop wrote:
While disembark after move might be a bit much to hope for, disembark after half move might be a thing (based on how MBTs are getting move half shoot twice).

After feeling extremely disappointed by the craftworlder codex, the new nid leaks are giving me hope that we might get some fluffy Kabal traits.

Unlike some people I am not opposed to having GW treat us as three separate subfactions, provided that  we can pick all three faction traits in one FOC and have them apply to the relevant units.

We pay a lot of tradeoffs (Psychic phase, limited units affected by auras, cardboard armour, ect), so in return we should be really good at what we do.

I agree with everything here. It may be - legitimately - too much to ask to more 14", drop a unit off with 3" and then allow them to move; but maybe half distance would be reasonable? I think there is a lot that can be done with our transports and unit capability while embarked...and it would still stick to fluff.

New Nids give me hope simply because there is a break from regurgitated traits, etc...which is very exciting. The (only...) benefit of not having psykers is that it means we cannot be a perfect foil to CWE, which is also a plus. Hopefully they play up to the Dark Eldar fluff and improve upon A) physical prowess and B) technology.

You're absolutely on point with the multiple faction traits within on FOC. My friend intends to do exactly that with Hive Fleets and take the minor inconvenience of synapse not applying across fleets. I imagine we would have the same capability. I do hope to see some aura abilities that span the majority of our army.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Fri Nov 03 2017, 03:46

Actually, the biggest thing I'm hoping for is to be faster than Craftworlders. I don't think that 16" on a Raider is unreasonable, frankly, it's a little absurd that Dark Eldar have the slowest vehicles of all of the Eldar. Open topped does significantly help the feel of "blisteringly fast," but I, more than anything, want to be the faction with the fastest vehicles.

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Fri Nov 03 2017, 05:02

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's funny how this forum is an endless battle of optimism vs pessimism Smile

Joining the first camp, i'd say we are noticing that every codex so far has seen drastic cuts in points cuts for the lackluster units (as well as some buffs, but mostly points cuts) as well as overall cool stratagems, doctrines and special rules that often multiply the units efficiency by 25, 50 or 100% (think Leman Russ, Fire prism or that crazy Hydra doctrine).

There is no reason to think it won't be the same for us. If Tyrannids get love, everybody will get love.

I think there are only a few people really pessimistic actually.
But I think it is also because people consider different things optimism/pessimism.
Rereading my post I can see how people consider it pessimistic. While in truth I am quite optimistic, but I think if most units (expecially our vehicles and such) get a 30% cut in price they will be to good.
Try playing against an unbound codex army (so no stratagems and no doctrines), if we get 30% more points we will win most of the time I think. I am not saying we won't get any boosts or anything, but we were very good when there were just index armies. I think we don't need as big a buff as the guard tanks or tyranids needed.
The idea that we can mix a specific coven cult and kabal in one FOC and get the bonusses sounds good to me.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Fri Nov 03 2017, 09:13

@thebaconpope yes. With the toughness and armour of craftworld skimmers and their reduced cost in the codex I really hope we get 16 inch moves too. Mainly because I'm hoping for an 8 inch move fire twice ravager rule.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Tue Nov 07 2017, 21:48

As said before, I'm very interested in how they will get our sub factions to synergize with each other. All it will take is the changing of keywords to Drukhari. thought we may need to look at the astra militarum dex. ogryns and ratlings while they do not benefit from regiment they do not detract. i feel this is how scourges,incubi, and mandrakes will be that way they do not take away from a battle forged Kabal list.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Tue Nov 07 2017, 22:08

I think we will get a good Idea on how we will be treated by the Dark Angels book. It is one army with three sub-factions; Deathwing, Ravenwing, and Tactical. To our; Coven, Cult, Kabal.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Wed Nov 08 2017, 06:54

Haha you want to compare us to canned mon keigh?
No my friend for the dark angels it will all be one faction and we will be split. In the index dark angels were also just one faction and we are 3. Don't get your hopes up just because the dark angels will not have been split, it just means nothing changed compared to the index, now consider us if nothing changed from the index.
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 09 2017, 01:40

@|Meavar wrote:
Haha you want to compare us to canned mon keigh?
No my friend for the dark angels it will all be one faction and we will be split. In the index dark angels were also just one faction and we are 3. Don't get your hopes up just because the dark angels will not have been split, it just means nothing changed compared to the index, now consider us if nothing changed from the index.

I still think it is ridiculous for GW to A) create complete codexes for sub-factions, B) not all sub-factions (but just couple), and C) to release them before complete armies get their codexes!

Sorry..sorry. Last time I say it. I digress.

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 09 2017, 14:55

LOL. Why do you guys keep doing this to yourselves? Every new codex one of these threads comes out. Conjecture will largely lead to disappointment. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 09 2017, 14:57

@Silverglade wrote:
LOL.   Why do you guys keep doing this to yourselves?  Every new codex one of these threads comes out.   Conjecture will largely lead to disappointment.  Wink

I find it fun. If the biggest disappointment in my life is that a codex doesn't meet my expectations then I'm doing alright!

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PostSubject: Re: new tyranids and what it COULD mean for us.   Thu Nov 09 2017, 17:05

@Silverglade wrote:
LOL.   Why do you guys keep doing this to yourselves?  Every new codex one of these threads comes out.   Conjecture will largely lead to disappointment.  Wink

Conjecture leads to hope. Hope leads to trust. Trust leads to betrayal. Betrayal leads to disappointment.

The Games Workshop path is a dark path indeed.

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