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 Greetings; new player!

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Rocmistro
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PostSubject: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 14:05

Hello!

I'm strongly considering the Dark Eldar for my next army. I currently own/play (having collected in this order): Necrons (3k; end of 6th edition), Blood Angels (6k; most of 7th edition), Raven Guard (4k; end of 7th to current).

Dark Eldar are always an army I wanted to do something with, but was dismayed in 7th edition because they sucked as bad, if not worse, than my Blood Angels. But I love the model range. Or rather, most of it. And there's the rub, and the major part holding me back.

You see, I hate, hate HATE The Raider. And from what I understand, it's kind of critical to Dark Eldar lists.

So, I'm considering making a dark eldar list around the following models, which I love:

Talos/Cronos Engines (LOVE THESE)
Scourges
Incbui
Wracks
Grotesque
Kabalites

Other models I'm ok with:
Reavers
Venoms
Mandrakes

Units I really don't want/like:
Wyches
Raiders

So, what do you guys think? Can I make a decent army without raiders? I'm not looking to win tournies or anything.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 14:27

I played a game the other day with very few boats so I could get more monsters into my list

There will be times that you’ll wish you could put grots in a raider solely to get them up field faster. But it is doable.

Go harmonculus covens, then foot slog up the board, advancing each turn. Use mandrakes and scourges to support your turn 3 assault (this is when you have re roll to charge and get +1 to hot)

If the enemy has S3 guns, hammy with grots to make them T6, if S4 guns, hammy with wracks to make them T5. You’ll want a lot of wracks to absorb all the fire power you’ll have to take.

Incubi and kabalites really should go in venom. Incubi could run but they’ll get targeted for their T3

Would you consider beasts or customized beasts? They could really help bring a footslog list together

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 14:29

Also cronos isn’t good atm but I ran one yesterday and it was fun, and talos have apparently done well for some. They are surprisingly resilient

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Rocmistro
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 14:49

@RedRegicide wrote:
Also cronos isn’t good atm but I ran one yesterday and it was fun, and talos have apparently done well for some. They are surprisingly resilient

There are some models that are just so damned cool that it does not matter how well they do or don't do. Talos/Cronos is one of them :-) My redemptor dreadnought is another (although, so far, he has actually done very well for me)
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Rocmistro
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 14:50

@RedRegicide wrote:
I played a game the other day with very few boats so I could get more monsters into my list

There will be times that you’ll wish you could put grots in a raider solely to get them up field faster. But it is doable.

Go harmonculus covens, then foot slog up the board, advancing each turn. Use mandrakes and scourges to support your turn 3 assault (this is when you have re roll to charge and get +1 to hot)

If the enemy has S3 guns, hammy with grots to make them T6, if S4 guns, hammy with wracks to make them T5. You’ll want a lot of wracks to absorb all the fire power you’ll have to take.

Incubi and kabalites really should go in venom. Incubi could run but they’ll get targeted for their T3

Would you consider beasts or customized beasts? They could really help bring a footslog list together

I can do Kabals in Venoms, yeah. Although that would involve MSU all the time, which is sad, but I can deal with it. Maybe a big unit of 10 to serve as a base of fire, and/or camp an objective.

I would consider beasts, yes. I might try to find different models though.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 15:00

This list is a really fun idea. I was messing around with some potential ideas on Battlescribe, and with the units that you love, you can make a pretty solid list.

On the HQ front, Haemoculoi are the option that'll pull your weight the most. Given that you're footslogging a lot of you key troops, their Aura will be invaluable, and giving them an Electrocorrossive whip will really kit them out for character hunting.

Troops, I'd say either go with footslogging Wracks or Kabalites in Venoms. I, once when I was experimenting, mind you, ran Kabalites outside of vehicles and it was...less than enjoyable for me. I have my doubts about the price of the venom, but a few squads won't disappoint. Otherwise, make sure that your Wracks have an Electrocorrossive whip (and perhaps an Ossefactor if you're feeling like having fun), and they'll present a a solid melee wall.

On elites, both Grots and Incubi will serve you very well, although I would heavily discourage buying the GW Grotesque model. With a few Talos bits and some other appropriately sized models converting them is easier for both assembly and on the wallet. There's plenty of guides here if you're interested. Incubi will need a transport to operate effectively (They may have power armor, but they will be high priority targets), but if you can get them into Marines...bye bye marines.

For fast attack, Scourges all the way. The rest of your list is fairly light in Anti-Tank, so these will probably be carrying most, if not all, of the AT duties. I'd recommend equipping all of them with Dark Lances, while blasters may be an appealing alternative, they're good for finishing things off, not providing a good foundation of AT.

On heavy support, obviously you're going to be wanting Pain Engines. On the Talos, just keep him stock, twin splinter cannons and Macro Scalpels is the best load out he currently has.

The best part is that playing around with this, you can easily fit this into a Brigade detachment. Which means more Command Points, more rerolls.

My suggestions for buying are: (By boxes of models)
3x HaemoculoI
4-6x Wracks
1x Kabalite Warriors
1-2x Incubi
[6 Grotesque Models]*
3x Scourges
1x Cronos
2x Talos
1-3x Venoms

*Given that there are several conversion options, I simply listed the models you'd need, not the boxes.

Depending on how you organize this, this will generally put you around 2000 points.

Hope this helps! Very Happy

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Rocmistro
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 15:07

BaconPope, that is fantastic, thank you!  I'm now more jazzed than before.

So, to be sure, Dark Eldar generally don't have anything like Space Marines do (vis a vis, Jump Packs, Termies teleport, or Drop Pods) for mass deep strike insertion, right?
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 15:12

Quote :
So, to be sure, Dark Eldar generally don't have anything like Space Marines do (vis a vis, Jump Packs, Termies teleport, or Drop Pods) for mass deep strike insertion, right?

Not currently..our two options for reserves are Mandrakes and Scourges. Considering our options in our past two Codices, it's a little disappointing, but something that I hope will be addressed with our Codex or even Chapter Approved

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 17:37

May I ask why you hate raiders that much?
If you hate raiders, maybe you'd be ok for a Tantalus full of grots?
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Rocmistro
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 18:33

i just don't like the look of it. At all.

The tantalus is better, but I still don't care for the "sail" look.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 18:47

Honestly, when the Webway portal stratagem will hit the codex, footslogging armies are going to be a thing, and then you'll be fine without raiders

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 18:47

Maybe use lots of mandrakes and scourge to distract the ennemy while you cross the field with your pain engines and wracks/grots.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Tue Oct 31 2017, 21:08

Beasts or reavers to distract the enemy as well. I like hatching my mandrakes in but they could just as easily be harassers

Crypt ghouls make excellent grots. I barely convert them and they look cool

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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Wed Nov 01 2017, 02:02

Short talk, go look around for a coven army (might be expensive though, and wracks are in failcast :/).
They are pretty resilient and I've heard they are pretty fun to play (talos/cronos & grotesques hit hard Very Happy)

Fluff wise, you can add scourges to them for heavy weaponry.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Wed Nov 01 2017, 03:02

@masamune wrote:
Short talk, go look around for a coven army (might be expensive though, and wracks are in failcast :/)
Not anymore, Wracks can be bought in plastic since shortly after the 7th Edition Dark Eldar Codex came out if i remember correctly:

https://www.games-workshop.com/de-DE/Wracks-2014

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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Wed Nov 01 2017, 14:06

I bought the same miniatures a while ago and they were resin.
Maybe they were recast in plastic, the website says "plastic kit" in the description ; but ~29€ for 5 plastic miniatures ?

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings; new player!   Wed Nov 01 2017, 20:39

Mandrakes can deep stroke and are one of our best shooters point for point, especially if you don't buy them a transport, which is perfect for you. I'd highly recommend them or a conversion of them.

Historically our army has been built upon dark light. And the index army is no different. By not taking ravagers and going for more of a coven feel you may find that you don't have enough anti tank sometimes. Scourges will be your friends here. Especially deep striking ones, as they will always get one turn of shooting before losing any models.
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