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 How will the Autarch affect our HQs

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 14:07

@TheBaconPope wrote:
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Given that our HQs have already been gutted - losing all their mobility in the 5th edition codex and basically all their wargear in the 7th edition codex, what's left to gut?

Well...The Archon might lose access to the Blast Pistol, Blaster, Agonizer, Power Sword, and Phantasm Grenade Launcher.

The Succubus could lose access to the Splinter Pistol, Blast Pistol, and Impaler.

And the Haemy could lose the Agonizer, Electrpcorrosive Whip, Flesh Gauntlet, Mindphase Gauntlet, Scissorhand, Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol, Hexrifle, and Liquidier gun.

That is of course worst case scenario, one where the kits are reduced to only the equipment that comes on the sprue. I don't expect it to be that drastic if it happens, but we could lose a lot should GW take that route.

We could, but my point was that we've already lost a lot. And, unlike this loss, we don't have the option of just using the Index options and points.

I know should probably be more annoyed about this possibility, but given that our HQs are probably the worst in the game anyway, I find myself feeling strangely optimistic.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 14:50

Actually, if you have the old models you CAN use the old Index's, GW has stated this MANY times, Legacy models = legacy index options (But you must use codex rules and points).

The rule itself
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

And example of them saying its ok
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23131681_10156561272444460_4776690642364009279_n.jpg?oh=291233fa13c537f4e072801fb45338dc&oe=5A7600FE

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 16:30

@amishprn86 wrote:
Actually, if you have the old models you CAN use the old Index's, GW has stated this MANY times, Legacy models = legacy index options (But you must use codex rules and points).

The rule itself
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

And example of them saying its ok
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23131681_10156561272444460_4776690642364009279_n.jpg?oh=291233fa13c537f4e072801fb45338dc&oe=5A7600FE

I know - that's exactly my point. If the codex removes wargear, we can still use it if we have the appropriate model.

However, there is no option in the index for our HQs to take Venom Blades or Skyboards or such. Therefore, regardless of whether we have appropriate models, those options have been lost for good.


Something I am curious about though - where does GW stand on conversions? I think we might make an interesting case for this because the 5th edition DE codex specifically promoted converting Archons - including using different weapons like Agonisers. Do those count?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 16:40

Yeah, but, sadly i dont want to play out of index's and will try not to, its annoying and in bad taste/game design.

Also tournaments (something i'm trying to get more and more into) wont let that fly for obvious shenanigans.

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 16:41

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Something I am curious about though - where does GW stand on conversions? I think we might make an interesting case for this because the 5th edition DE codex specifically promoted converting Archons - including using different weapons like Agonisers. Do those count?

They have been remarkably..erratic..on this point. On one hand, you see armies like Chaos and GK getting units that don't have official models, and armies like IG and Eldar with OOP or otherwise not in kit options gutted entirely.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 21:56

@amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, but, sadly i dont want to play out of index's and will try not to, its annoying and in bad taste/game design.

Also tournaments (something i'm trying to get more and more into) wont let that fly for obvious shenanigans.

I dunno about that 2/3 of the big ITC events went along with GW's Rune Priest ruling back in 2016 with minimal modification. I could see them taking a similar take here for now. Long term we're heading towards MTG with a Legacy and Modern/Standard mode and have been since 2014-2015. Post full run of codexes (FUGW I'm still saying codices) is when we need to be paying attention because that is what's going to spell our long term fate for the following 3-4 years. The next 1-2 years are just groundwork for their new system/ideals/perspective and since they've already all be printed anyway it's not like anything that happens now is going to impact the first run of new codices.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 22:05

@amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, but, sadly i dont want to play out of index's and will try not to, its annoying and in bad taste/game design.

Oh, I quite agree.

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
Something I am curious about though - where does GW stand on conversions? I think we might make an interesting case for this because the 5th edition DE codex specifically promoted converting Archons - including using different weapons like Agonisers. Do those count?

They have been remarkably..erratic..on this point. On one hand, you see armies like Chaos and GK getting units that don't have official models, and armies like IG and Eldar with OOP or otherwise not in kit options gutted entirely.

Indeed.

I was referring more to the faq thing though (the one that allows you to use index rules for older models, if they or their wargear doesn't appear in the codex).

I wondered what the precise definition of 'older model' was. e.g. if I have an old Archon that's been modified to hold an Agoniser - exactly as the codex at the time suggested - would that count?

I know it's unlikely to matter in friendly games but for events and such it seems like a lot of grey area (assuming they don't just disallow them entirely).
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 22:38

May I add that our HQ's aren't the only things that have been gutted since 5th edition?

Look at Warriors: 5th edition they could get plasma grenades, haywire grenades, and their rifles. Trueborn had all the same options, access to ghostplate, and could swap the rifle for melee weapon/pistol to take advantage of their extra attack and run a full kabal army with melee.

7th edition, we lost the haywire grenade option, ghostplate, and the melee loadout.
index, we lost all grenades.
8th codex: they came for our guns! Just like Obama!
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 22:52

Quote :
May I add that our HQ's aren't the only things that have been gutted since 5th edition?

Look at Warriors: 5th edition they could get plasma grenades, haywire grenades, and their rifles. Trueborn had all the same options, access to ghostplate, and could swap the rifle for melee weapon/pistol to take advantage of their extra attack and run a full kabal army with melee.

7th edition, we lost the haywire grenade option, ghostplate, and the melee loadout.
index, we lost all grenades.
8th codex: they came for our guns! Just like Obama!

Don't forget Shardcarbines! It certainly is an interesting process to watch. And why GW thinks that giving a seven point model a grenade is something to be avoided at all costs is beyond me.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 23:16

OOOOOOO 1 grenade per 5 guys is so good........ NOT!

Yeah Kabals still even have Grenades on the models....

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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 23:33

GW seems to be scared of giving xenos grenades.

Also, what is wrong with us using plasma grenades instead of Darklight grenades? Not edgy enough? Unlike Space Wolves and their Wolf Grenades and their Wolf Missiles and Blood Angels and their Blood Grenades and their Blood Missiles, we don't need to have everything branded as Dark. We are the ELDAR, not those craftworlder pretenders. We are the True Kin! Give the Dark Edgy Grenades to the Dark Angels.
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 23:38

And then you have DG with a full unit that can throw all the grenades for 1CP, i was re-learning Nids yesterday and went against DG, this unit threw enough to to kill a 20man Hgant squad... i was just so stunned... b.c its not like they dont have flails for AH, but htey all have nades too.... ffs.

GW doesnt want Non-Power Armor with grenades.

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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 23:39

Quote :
Also, what is wrong with us using plasma grenades instead of Darklight grenades?

What's even the point of renaming them if they have the exact same stats as a the Craftworlders? Furthermore, why call them Darklight when they don't have a statline even remotely resembling any of our other Darklight Weapons?
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 23:50

@amishprn86 wrote:


GW doesnt want Non-Power Armor with grenades.

Imperial Guard can give every man a grenade (maybe two, do they still get krak standard as well?), down to the damn conscripts! Surely we can at least splurge for grenades for our elites!
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Fri Nov 03 2017, 23:58

Maybe it's because they removed the 'Dark' from our name and thus felt obliged to stick it back in elsewhere.



Going back to the Autarch for a moment, I hadn't realised at first that he's locked into different weapon options, depending on whether or not he's on foot. As in, a Winged Autarch can't have the new Glaive weapon and the walking Autarch apparently isn't allowed a Fusion Pistol. In fact, it seems the leader of the Eldar has to content himself with throwing grenades at people as his only form of ranged attack. Guess we know why they're a dying race. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: How will the Autarch affect our HQs   Sat Nov 04 2017, 00:01

@The Shredder wrote:
Maybe it's because they removed the 'Dark' from our name and thus felt obliged to stick it back in elsewhere.



Going back to the Autarch for a moment, I hadn't realised at first that he's locked into different weapon options, depending on whether or not he's on foot. As in, a Winged Autarch can't have the new Glaive weapon and the walking Autarch apparently isn't allowed a Fusion Pistol. In fact, it seems the leader of the Eldar has to content himself with throwing grenades at people as his only form of ranged attack. Guess we know why they're a dying race. Rolling Eyes

... *facepalm*
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