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 Eldar rangers competetive now?

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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 09:57

Rangers droped from 20 to 12 points per model. As alaitoc in an own detatchment they get an additional -1 to hit. 3+ save in cover. 36" range heavy 1. S4. Wound roll of 6 - add a mortal wound.

Bunkered up in some ruins with an autarch reroll 1. Autarch regains CP on a 6. Can take a reaper launcher (21points now) and warlord trait to target characters. Possible deepstrike option with wings.

Scouts. To be placed before first battle round. 9" away from enemy models.

Could someone swing the mathhammer and tell me if it's worth it? I think it's super valuable to take out characters.
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 16:03

I feel like they will never dish out enough damage to properly threaten characters, especially with just one squad of them, but as a deterrent to make another player rethink their strategy I think they will be great. The scout deployment will mean they will be very strong area denial units that can't be reacted to prior to their eployment ending

To me these factors are as strong as their shooting. Additionally I already spend points on area denial kabalite, so this is 25 more points but for a unit I feel I might get use out of
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 17:20

If they were able to choose models instead of just characters they would be a lot better.

That being said, so long as they're protected from charges and given a decent firing lane, they can still do some good work, while being a good bullet sponge while in cover.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 18:26

I'm building an army of Alaitoc that is basically 2*10 rangers with a farseer and Fireprism + Warkwalker + vyper support. It has a very strong "Star Wars rebels ambush" style, and i love it.

Here are some maths for 10 rangers shooting against, say, an Overlord :
- 10 shots
- 6.66 hits
- 2.2 wounds + 1.1 mortal wound
- 1.8 damage

If you apply Doom, it gets VERY nasty
- 10 shots
- 6.66
- 3.6 wounds + 1.8 MW
- 3 damage

Which means that if i cast Doom on a Space Marine Captain, a Necron Overlord, an Ork Warboss,... my 20 rangers will insta-gib him in a single round. At a 36" range.
Considering 20 rangers is only 240pts now (and the Farseer is key to any CW strategy IMO), i'm very excited to test this.

BTW, here are some stats for Rangers shooting at Tac marines with Doom on them :
- 10 shots
- 6.66 hits
- 3.33 + 1.1 MW
- 2.2 dead SM

So they are definitly viable against infantry, considering the range, the price, and their survivability.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 19:37

To put it a different way, they do about half the ranged damage of Mandrakes, but from much longer range. Mandrakes do very well with their firepower among our options (check the link in my signature for detail). They are marginally over half the cost of Mandrakes, so are fairly points efficient for their shooting damage, as well as being fairly survivable and able to target characters.

So, I would say yes, they are competitive - especially with the Alaitoc trait and Farseer support. They are also becoming viable options for Ynnari soulbursts too.

Mppqlmd - your Rangers shooting at Marines numbers with Doom look a bit low:
10 shots
× 2/3 = 20/3 hits
× 3/4 = 5 wounds
× 1/3 = 5/3 unsaved
+ 20/3 hits × (1/6 + 1/2 × 1/6) = 5/3 mortal wounds
Total = 10/3 dead SM = 3.3

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 20:02

Yeah, i calculated without doom actually Smile

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 21:47

For 60pts as a troop pick that can be Alaitoc that is 36" range -2 to hit can do MW and target characters? yes they are the competitive Troop choice.

BUT are they competitive enough to take a troop choice? That IDK, Dark Reapers, Shadow Specters (that can DS and/or get -2 to hit) etc.. are so good now, along with many others, its hard to say if rangers will have a place in a competitive list, for Semi-comp for sure they are.

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 22:35

Mortal wound doom is so vicious.

Really looking forward to trying out mandrakes and these guys in a list w a farseer. I feel it should just wreck large squads, which are the one target I struggle to contain.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Oct 28 2017, 23:51

Snipers are a tiny bit less relevant now that commissar are gone, but Company Commander, Crypteks, Painboys, etc. are still there. 8th edition is hugely about force multiplication, and sniper are the direct answer to that.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Oct 29 2017, 00:49

Every SM, CSm, Daemon player has multi characters tho, Eldar does as well, and Daemons, CSM, Eldar characters are really important to kill.

I sure we will see a large shift in the meta now.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Oct 29 2017, 03:00

If we do, it will be a positive shift for us as no character of ours is a lynchpin of our lists, and using sniper weapons vs who led and regular troops for most armies is a horrible use of points.

Looks like we might be moving towards being the anti meta again!
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Oct 29 2017, 03:40

@LordSplata wrote:
If we do, it will be a positive shift for us as no character of ours is a lynchpin of our lists, and using sniper weapons vs  who led and regular troops for most armies is a horrible use of points.

Looks like we might be moving towards being the anti meta again!

It would appear we have taken another step on the Power From Useless Characters chart!
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Oct 29 2017, 03:56

Only good thing about 7th lol, Lhamaean + 30 Reavers XD

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Oct 29 2017, 04:55

@amishprn86 wrote:
Only good thing about 7th lol, Lhamaean + 30 Reavers XD

Best HQ EVER!
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Oct 29 2017, 05:22

Yeah i already miss it... lol But i'm.... going to try something on my Monday game, very odd (most likely wont work) the Archon and Court might work.
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t16640-odd-ur-ghul-tactic#202606

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Nov 04 2017, 00:12

I've got three 5 man squads ready to test out. I'm more interested in their ability to be a cheap, semi survivable troop choice so I can get the 3 troop choices and have more points for the heavy hitters
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Nov 04 2017, 00:15

@Aschen wrote:
I've got three 5 man squads ready to test out.  I'm more interested in their ability to be a cheap, semi survivable troop choice so I can get the 3 troop choices and have more points for the heavy hitters

Yeah they are worth it to will out a battalion for sure, if anything -2 to hit and pressure on characters are always good.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Nov 04 2017, 00:35

If you can spare the psychic support? Sure, there's plenty of reason to take 2x5 or 1x10. They kinda need Guide in order to be really effective though. 10 of them will do avg 4.07 wounds to a GEQ including mortals, and rerolling misses you get 5.43.

Even so, with the right Craftworld trait you're looking at -2 to hit in cover. That's some solid backfield objective camping.

That said they just don't bring as much pain as other Troops choices.

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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Nov 04 2017, 09:10

Why not an autarch for rerolling ones? That should do the trick.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sat Nov 04 2017, 09:19

These guys are going to be my anti-obliterator detterent.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Fri Dec 22 2017, 18:07

Rangers have been working extremely well for me since the Codex. They almost never get shot at (and if they do, it's a win because they're incredibly hard to hit). They're cheap troops and have objective secured. They do a great job of clearing out support characters (Astra Militarum etc). Finally, around turn 3 when they're out of characters to kill, they do an effective job of clearing out severely damaged vehicles so my dark lances can focus on other targets.

For reference, I usually run them with an Autarch Skyrunner, Warlock Skyrunner, 3 Shining Spears, and 3x5 Rangers for a 450 point Battalion to supplement 1550 points of Drukhari.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar rangers competetive now?   Sun Dec 24 2017, 19:31

2 Farseers and 3x5 Scouts are a gread add to any DE army!
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