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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 05:07

While the Dark Eldar lacking Psykers is well established, is there any reason that they would not still have Psychic Nulls among their race? How about among their mercenary options?

I just got thinking about DE psyker defense (my chaos buddy tends to run psyker heavy and having no countermeasures hurts), so I was thinking: what about a model for the Court of the Archon that can counter psykers? It could be a rare breed of DE, it could be an alien mercenary, but I can envision many reasons for Archons to seek out such individuals and keep them close at hand. Just let them Deny 1 power per turn or something.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 06:15

I like the idea of Coven enhancements for this. I wish all Cover just got it as a rule to Deny on 1d6 at least.

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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 08:37

Well Vect did seem to have plenty of them around Khaines gate. I see no reason why an Archon wouldn't keep one near by.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 09:38

Were there nulls by the gate? I don't think I ever read that.
I always thought in the fluff that nulls were just a Human thing. Genetically speaking.
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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 10:20

Where the nulls came from I don't know, this is Vect. They were locked in cages, check the 5/7th ed' codex. their should be a brief part on it. As the knocking and voices grew louder eventually there was scratching and thudding. Cracks started to form and chains broke. The nulls themselves started to scream at what was on the other side.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 10:41

I believe Vect was having the nulls Kidnapped from human worlds during raids.

Vect leads a small force into an inquistorial stronghold as a splinter of a larger raid. And the Kabal of the Black Heart kidnap a handful of Nulls who are smuggled into the dark city and placed around Khaine's Gate.

-Source 7th Ed Codex, Stealing the Void.

So I think Nulls would be too much to ask considering the effort Vect personally went through to get a handful. However I think having some good old relics could be the answer to these kind of problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 10:53

978999.M41 Stealing the Void
The Kabal of the Black Heart and the Wych Cult of Strife lead a massive raid against the Imperial Navy moorings at Bakka. The attack causes immense destruction and leaves a swathe of the Imperium open to further raids, yet this is merely a by-product of Vect’s true purpose. While the bulk of the raiding forces are fully engaged with the Imperial Navy, a small Dark Eldar force breaks away under the cover of advanced night shields. Led by Vect himself, with Lelith Hesperax at his side, this force assails the Inquisitorial stronghold concealed behind Bakka’s third moon. In the ensuing battle, the Black Heart successfully kidnaps a handful of very specialist personnel. Aberrant anti-psychic
mutants, the very presence of these so-called Nulls deadens the tides of the Warp and is anathema to the Daemons of Chaos. The Nulls are smuggled into the depths of the Dark City, destined for grotesque machines arranged around the Undercore. Yet, though the luckless mutants are moved with the greatest care and secrecy, Vect’s plan does not go entirely unnoticed, for the eyes of Lady Malys are everywhere.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 10:54

Lovely, was just looking for that.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 11:23

Totally agree, crucible isn't enough ^^'

The idea to have a Null slave chained to the archon is lovely Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 11:28

Given the lore we have, and the fact that we're just fed up with the universe and can blow whatever up. I see no reason as to why we can't have more than a crucible.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 11:51

I'd hope the Haemonculi could come up with something more creative than just a Null on a leash for the army.

I'd like to see some kind of permenant relic which can affect psykers if it gets too close. It would create a nice little game of chase the psyker for the Hammys to go on during the battle and not limit them to a one use chance of doing some damage.

Being a relic and in limited supply would also make it not spammy and something you have to limit yourself in other regards by taking.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 11:52

I'm sure the Haemonculus Covens could distill the Pariah gene down into something that could be weaponised.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 12:10

I'd be game for like a vehicle uppgrade, Nullbox or whatever. Just some poor sod in a can or box that reduce psykers effectivness around it. Or like you said, some little null on a leash. As long as the leash matches my whip.
But hard to see it in action. Gonna be like a familiar ? Think more likely that some new weapond or maybe a new contraprion/Pain Engine from the Heamies could be implemented in the game in a non-weird way. But then again, asking for new things as DE might be too bold.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 14:22

This has annoyed me for quite some time as well, so much so that I homebrewed a "Null Engine" for 7E.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 14:28

Honestly, I kinda want a non coven answer to psykers.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 14:50

I'd like it if something he had had an ability like Inquisitors where even though they are non psykers they can still deny the witch.

I'd like to see the helm of spite come back in that way, and perhaps some of our vehicles having upgrades that try to dappen psychic powers would be interesting (and it'd make sense for the Deldar to handle it that way while on a raid)
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 22:38

I don't see why we can't have psychers in the dark city, as much as people wanna deny it, (understandably), Vect's hold on the dark city is slipping, and it's not like they don't "tolerate" psychers in the dark city, Harlequin troupes preform there regularly and on of the most used during those performances is the shadowseer, and honestly lady Malys is basically a psycher ... She just doesn't use her powers in the open for every one to see, (I know I know sharing her soul and mind with a webway god and all that but that doesn't change that she is basically a psycher). Baron Sathyx had wed a farseer (either by force or otherwise, I'm not that well read on that bit of lore) ... Granted she was killed by Vect based on his paranoia that his rivals would use the abilities of a psycher to usurp his power (yes covered up by the want to keep the eye of slaanesh away from the dark city ... But I don't know how much water that holds as the underbelly of the dark city holds a gate into the warp and it's very clear the forces of chaos know it's there).
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 22:47

From my understanding, its only in Commorragh and some cities that there is a no psyker rule and that the ones that are psykers are off in their own cities/areas.

Also b.c how 40k is in the lore there are large amounts of writing that could just be propaganda and not turn or a lie to lure them into traps, when talking about Vect and DE you never know if everything is true or not.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 23:51

I think that each subfaction should have at least some option for anti-psyker, so that you can run a pure kabal, Cult or Coven army and have at least some option.

I vote a beast for Cults, some kind of thought eater or something. Either wargear or some kind of alien in the court of the archon for the Kabals. Covens should have several options, this is kind of their thing after all.

In universe, I don't think the Dark Eldar trust other factions enough to rely on them for this type of protection. Psyker powers can sever your soul from your body, the thing the Dark Eldar fear most. if anything deserves extra redundancy in a DE army, it's psyker protection.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 23:56

A army wide relic would solve the problem of having it fit with every play style, and also make it an optional extra without the need for new kits. So people can play to counter an army with a large number of psykers.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Mon Oct 23 2017, 23:57

@Vindicavi wrote:
A army wide relic would solve the problem of having it fit with every play style, and also make it an optional extra without the need for new kits. So people can play to counter an army with a large number of psykers.

Or as suggested above, a vehicle upgrade. Or both!

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Tue Oct 24 2017, 01:08

An upgrade or relic wouldn't be bad but, I'd really like to see a new coven unit or court unit designed to counter psykers. A new plastic grot kit could even have a second build that allows for grote built from nulls. I'm not going to hold my breath but, there's a lot they could do with it since GW has set Ve t and the Covens against the Ynnari as opposed to aligned with them.

On the topic of renegade psykers in Commorragh I built some out of the sister of the thorn kit and reaver jetbikes for my Ynnari force to keep a DE feel. Next plan is taking some winderiders and maybe cold one knights and making shining spears..still in the planning stage.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Tue Oct 24 2017, 01:17

@lament.config wrote:
On the topic of renegade psykers in Commorragh I built some out of the sister of the thorn kit and reaver jetbikes for my Ynnari force to keep a DE feel. Next plan is taking some winderiders and maybe cold one knights and making shining spears..still in the planning stage.

Huh, this is exactly what I did. It works really well - the Sisters of Thorn rider fits almost perfectly onto a jetbike and looks suitably Dark Eldar-y, especially if you give them a Wild Rider head.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Tue Oct 24 2017, 01:33

Yup definitely the wild rider heads.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar nulls?   Tue Oct 24 2017, 14:27

@Archon_91 wrote:
I don't see why we can't have psychers in the dark city, as much as people wanna deny it, (understandably), Vect's hold on the dark city is slipping, and it's not like they don't "tolerate" psychers in the dark city, Harlequin troupes preform there regularly and on of the most used during those performances is the shadowseer, and honestly lady Malys is basically a psycher ... She just doesn't use her powers in the open for every one to see, (I know I know sharing her soul and mind with a webway god and all that but that doesn't change that she is basically a psycher). Baron Sathyx had wed a farseer (either by force or otherwise, I'm not that well read on that bit of lore) ... Granted she was killed by Vect based on his paranoia that his rivals would use the abilities of a psycher to usurp his power (yes covered up by the want to keep the eye of slaanesh away from the dark city ... But I don't know how much water that holds as the underbelly of the dark city holds a gate into the warp and it's very clear the forces of chaos know it's there).

Harlequins are master of conceilement. They are used to hide their presence from Slaanesh, so they are not a great threat. Malys is not a psycker. She is more the opposite, so it should be fine. And for the Gate of Khaine, it was not there when the no-psycker rule was created. The gate magically appeared during 5th edition.
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