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 2000 pt tournament list critique

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Luthon
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PostSubject: 2000 pt tournament list critique    Sun Oct 15 2017, 19:19

Hey guys just went to a tournament yesterday and got destroyed (went 1-2 in a three round tournament) and was wondering if it was maybe my list.

My opponents were: Grey knights (he went on to win, and I think it was the most competitive list at the tournament), CSM alpha legion (I won but honestly I think it was because his list was bad and he was a new player but the score came down to 10-9), Nids (I had some horrendous rolls but I think I just played this match wrong)

My list:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [101 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ HQ [9 PL] +

Archon [4 PL]: Agoniser, Blast Pistol

Haemonculus [5 PL]: Crucible of Malediction, Electrocorrosive whip, Splinter Pistol

+ Troops [16 PL] +

Kabalite Warriors [5 PL]
.. 8x Kabalite Warrior
.. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Splinter Cannon
.. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [5 PL]
.. 8x Kabalite Warrior
.. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Splinter Cannon
.. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Wracks [6 PL]
.. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
.. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Haemonculus Tools, Ossefactor
.. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Haemonculus Tools, Ossefactor
.. 7x Wracks: 7x Haemonculus Tools

+ Elites [14 PL] +

Incubi [9 PL]
.. 7x Incubi
.. Klaivex: Klaive

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL]
.. Dracon: Blast Pistol
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster

+ Heavy Support [24 PL] +

Ravager [8 PL]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [8 PL]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [8 PL]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

+ Flyer [16 PL] +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

+ Dedicated Transport [22 PL] +

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance, Shock Prow

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance

Venom [4 PL]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [101 PL, 2000pts] ++

My opinions on my list was that I have no psychic defense and I don't know if the haemie/wracks/incubi are worth it. My MVPs were the ravagers.

Post edited: Please do not post point values - Count Adhemar
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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pt tournament list critique    Mon Oct 16 2017, 10:16

To me this is a solid list but there are changes I would make. Though the list itself is solid it is always down to what you're up against as well. Just because a list didn't work against one army doesn't mean it's a bad list.

To be honest I would have dropped the Wracks to a 5 man squad a spent the points else where. Same with the Incubi, I seem to find Mandrakes deal more damage than the Incubi most of the time. I put that down to their mortal wound potential. I prefer Voidravens to Razorwing's, there's a lot of debate on what's better. Blasterborn is something I don't field much of anymore and don't seem to have had any setback in doing so, though I s'pose that's down to how I bring more AT to the table in different ways than you do in this list. I Have 2 reapers and a Tantalus, finally fielding my second one as it's mostly painted now bar crew.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pt tournament list critique    Mon Oct 16 2017, 13:48

@Luthon wrote:
Archon [4 PL]: Agoniser, Blast Pistol

Haemonculus [5 PL]: Crucible of Malediction, Electrocorrosive whip, Splinter Pistol
Your HQs look fine, though I question the point of cramming both in with Incubi and assaulting with them. I'd at least tend to favor a Succubus with Glaive over an Archon for that.
Or are you walking them with Wracks?
I dunno, your core assembly feels wonky.

@Luthon wrote:
Kabalite Warriors [5 PL]
.. 8x Kabalite Warrior
.. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Splinter Cannon
.. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle
I think you're burning a lot of needless points here. The S.Cannon is currently almost a sidegrade that you pay for the privilege to field. I would tend to take just 5 Warriors with a Blaster myself - if you're worried about anti-infantry some of the freed up points could go towards buying some Dissies for your vehicles.
I'm also pretty 'meh' on the PGL, but a lot of people seem to like them. I don't think they're worth it in the current meta - but if they work well for you stick to them.

@Luthon wrote:
Wracks [6 PL]
.. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
.. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Haemonculus Tools, Ossefactor
.. Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models): Haemonculus Tools, Ossefactor
.. 7x Wracks: 7x Haemonculus Tools
You're paying a lot of points for what is a glorified objective camper unit here.
Wracks are worse than Wyches in assault and worse then Warriors at shooting - what they're good at is being tougher. So are you trying to get a tougher unit, or are you trying to have assault/shooting power? Pick your Troop option accordingly.

@Luthon wrote:
Incubi [9 PL]
.. 7x Incubi
.. Klaivex: Klaive
Incubi are great. I tend to only field squads of 5 (especially if pairing with HQs) as they tend to do a great assault, then the enemy runs away and I'm shot up - and why pay extra points to get shot up? But they're a great unit.

@Luthon wrote:
Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL]
.. Dracon: Blast Pistol
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
.. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
The Blast Pistol feels like an indulgent burning of points that is probably almost never used.
I'd save those points for other stuff in a heartbeat.

@Luthon wrote:
Ravager [8 PL]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [8 PL]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [8 PL]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance
This is great.

@Luthon wrote:
Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle
This is also great - as a strategic option if you like CPs - getting one more flyer in will let you take a Flyer detachment for bonus CPs as a reward for taking another powerful unit. Just saying Wink

@Luthon wrote:
Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance, Shock Prow

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance

Venom [4 PL]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle
This is all fine.

@Luthon wrote:
My opinions on my list was that I have no psychic defense and I don't know if the haemie/wracks/incubi are worth it. My MVPs were the ravagers.
If you're playing pure DE you won't get a lot of psychic defense, so ignore that - it just is what it is. Just kill stuff, that will sort the psykers soon enough.
I agree with you on the Wracks 100%.
I guardedly agree on the Haem, especially if you drop the Wracks it might behoove you just to take a cheaper HQ, like a Blaster Archon.
Incubi are good - I think you're just putting too many eggs in that basket, 5 of them would do you just as well methinks.
Ravagers are one of our best units, so natch they were MVPs. Very Happy


I'd say you have a great 1850 point list and then bulked it up to be an acceptable 2000 point list. With a bit of trimming you could cut some fat and add in another unit or so to help boost your damage output. I'd tend to advocate Scourges or a third Razorwing Jetfighter.

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Luthon
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pt tournament list critique    Mon Oct 16 2017, 17:54

@urien: Blasterborn have been a hit or miss for me so far. They either tear into something, or don't do enough damage to compensate them getting so close to the enemy. And they usually die afterwards so I dunno I might drop them from future lists. I would love to field my tantalus but for now FW stuff isn't allowed at tournaments in my local area.

@thor666: Yea I was adding the haemie to the archon+incubi to lower the amount of drops I was doing to help secure the turn 1 and then I would deploy him next to the wracks.

The 10 man squads were tailored for anti hordes but yea SC's looking kind of pitiful, and the only reason why I gave them PGLs because everyone was recommending them but I don't think I used them once for the entire tournament.

Wracks I find are a good roadblock, they are expensive and the ossefactor ruling is up in the air but I've had them hold back a 30 ork boy squad for a turn and that's usually all I need to get away and gun them down.

I've been beefing up my incubi because they always seem to lose 1-2 members in Over watch which really decreases the value of the unit, but with how I've been playing them lately as a Counter assault unit it would probably be better to decrease them down to 5.

You should have seen the faces of my opponents when they see ravagers. I love hearing them complain about the strength of the Dark lances or having to pull their medium sized models off the table from a volley of disentegrator shots.

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Luthon
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pt tournament list critique    Mon Oct 16 2017, 18:03

Didn't want to make my last post too long but here is a reworked list:

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, pts] ++

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Voidraven [9 PL]: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [73 PL] ++

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, ]: Agoniser, Blaster

Succubus [4 PL]: Blast Pistol

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL]
.. 3x Kabalite Warrior
.. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
.. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL]
.. 3x Kabalite Warrior
.. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
.. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL]
.. 3x Kabalite Warrior
.. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
.. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Elites +

Incubi [5 PL]
.. 4x Incubi
.. Klaivex: Klaive

Mandrakes [5 PL]: 4x Mandrake, Nightfiend

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [6 PL]
.. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
.. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
.. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
.. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
.. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [8 PL]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager [8 PL]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL]: Dark Lance

Venom [4 PL]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Total: [98 PL, 1994pts] ++

I dropped the haemie and wracks, turned the warrior squads into 5 mans, and had two of them share a raider while the other is in a venom. Archon and succubus are in the same raider but Archon is gonna stay in it to provide blaster shots. I added a unit of Mandrakes and DL scourges these two units have been performing pretty well in this addition. I added a air wing detachment with 2 razorwings and a voidraven with dark scythes (Razorwing is probably a better option but I only have two and I think GW is still in the process of reboxing everything).

Thanks for the help guys. I was just floored on how badly I did, like I haven't done this badly since 4th ed so I thought maybe it was my list which while it had some things that weren't optimal but it looks like it was just mainly how I was playing and fretting about how powerful some armies looked.
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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 pt tournament list critique    Tue Oct 17 2017, 08:26

Ahhhh Mandrakes Smile Beautiful Plenty of lances and such, should perform better IMO Wink WHAT? NO TANTALUS? Dang the pain I would feel, I love my giant sword boat :0

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