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 Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Thu Oct 19 2017, 20:00

@Burnage wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
Windriders are already 10 points cheaper than Reavers; that they're getting a "considerable" points reduction might mean good things are coming for the Dark Eldar.

I'd not realised they were that cheap before. How on earth do GW justify pricing Windriders at 20 points but Reavers at 30? That's just mental!!

They're (slightly) faster, have Combat Drugs, +1 Attack, have a squad leader with another +1 A and +1L, and get Blade Vanes and Splinter Rifles for free (Windriders have to pay for all of their weapons).

I don't think those add up to being worth 10 points a model but it's not outrageous that they're more expensive.

And that is DE's problem... like always.. Rules bloat. We are built for everything so we have to pay for everything, but we are not specialized enough like Eldar.. Eldar is specialized so its easy to see the benefit of their points.

If you can use all the rules then sure the points are fine, but if you cant then its just wasted.

I think Reavers should pick 1, Caltrops or Grav talons and just get the full unit equipped with them for 1-2pts each or free.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Thu Oct 19 2017, 20:59

I can kinda take a guess at whats cooking ... A couple of outrider detachments ... All of them wind riders with scatter lasers, a shuriken cannon or two, a farseer on a jetbike and possibly a couple of Vypers for heavier weaponry (for those things that a scatter laser just can't wound on a 4+) then guide and doom ... Will wipe out whatever it's looking at and wouldn't have to move that much with scatter lasers 36" range, when it comes time to capture objectives simply advance 22" and cover the objective in bikes with psychic support (about turn 3 or 4 if there is any of the enemy left) and go from there ... That's what I see immediately, but Teenageangst is a better player than I and probably has a bit more nuanced list than that. Besides I would rather play iyanden, it fits my eldar play style better (plus the 7th Ed iyanden supplemental codex is what got me into eldar)... I have dark eldar for a fast glass Cannon army
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Thu Oct 19 2017, 22:26

Proper scatbike lists always involved more than just scatbikes. Artillery, Warp Spiders, a Seerstar, something to augment it a bit. I have a feeling to make up for the downright awful bonuses the Eldar are getting for their Craftworlds we're going to see a dramatic points reduction on many units, such as the Wraithknight and the various Heavy Supports.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Thu Oct 19 2017, 22:48

Though a seerstar isnt going to be as big a thing this edition is it? As you can only cast a power once in a psychic phase (besides smite) so no multiple dooms or guides or anything else, but I could see support via a wraithknight or Vauls wrath support batteries, or fire prisms if the reveal tomorrow makes them worth it
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Gorgon
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 03:09

I was looking at how the vypers are now bikers and have a points reduction. Obviously that'll do well for Saim-Hann but what about Ynnari? I can see a mobile heavy weapons platform that can soul burst as being very beneficial, even if it's just 2 shuriken cannons per model.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 03:54

Saw in a comment that Holofields will not be making an appearance this edition. Scrapping something THAT iconic does not bode well for Splinter Racks...

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 03:56

@Gorgon wrote:
I was looking at how the vypers are now bikers and have a points reduction. Obviously that'll do well for Saim-Hann but what about Ynnari? I can see a mobile heavy weapons platform that can soul burst as being very beneficial, even if it's just 2 shuriken cannons per model.

I hadn't even thought of that! Nice. I have a viper that came with my windrider battleshost box that I've almost never used.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 15:45

They basically turned Fire Prisms into Leman Russes, which is fine I guess. When you compare Aliatoc's universal -1 to hit to... well Ulthwe for one, it seems kinda obvious which is better. And yeah Seerstar bit the dust.

Honestly I'm torn how to run scatbikes. If I get them to be Aliatoc and sit them still with a Warlock for Conceal, they'll be virtually untouchable. But if I run them as Saim-Hann I get to move them all I want and jump-shoot-jump.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 15:48

Well, it's still possible that Ulthwe will be compensated with better warlord traits and stratagems. It's still too early to ascertain the internal balance (or lack thereof) of the codex.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 15:59

Good comment on Facebook that supposedly fast-moving Eldar tanks are actually much better when they don't move at all!

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 16:09

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Good comment on Facebook that supposedly fast-moving Eldar tanks are actually much better when they don't move at all!

Well, it's not illogical that a fire prism would be more effective if it takes time to slow down to focus its shot(s) - and 8" isn't exactly a crawl. I doubt that anyone used fire prisms to race around the table with them before - and 16" (plus advance) to re-position a heavy weapon platform isn't slow.

Of course, when the DE codex comes around, we'd better get all the movement and all the shooting with no penalty. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 16:26

Well, the Warhammer Live talk for Codex Craftworlds is supposed to start in about 35 minutes. So maybe there will be some new tidbits in that.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 16:37

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Good comment on Facebook that supposedly fast-moving Eldar tanks are actually much better when they don't move at all!

It wouldn't be 8th edition if they weren't handing out identical rules to everyone though.

Like I said when this shin-dig started many moons ago. If they're going to try to balance the game, then it's all gonna become very same-y.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 18:17

Just finished watching Warhammer TV and holy points restructuring batman. When it goes on demand I will listen and take notes. but just off the top banshees cannot be over-watched but lose strike first. they break the 12" rule for charges. can declare out to 15" get +3" to charge, go biel-tan and have +5-6". If Jain-zar is near by then they get strike first back.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 18:44

@Dalamar wrote:
Just finished watching Warhammer TV and holy points restructuring batman.  When it goes on demand I will listen and take notes.  but just off the top banshees cannot be over-watched but lose strike first. they break the 12" rule for charges.  can declare out to 15" get +3" to charge, go biel-tan and have +5-6".  If Jain-zar is near by then they get strike first back.

Tell more! Please, missed the show Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 19:01

Copy and pasted this from Reddit:
From the livestream tactics talk:
-Shining Spears are down 6 points.
-No Ynnari in the Craftworlds codex. Ynnari armies don't benefit from Craftworlds attributes.
-Dire Avengers are now 12 points a model (same as Rangers).
-New power Quickening, essentially Warptime. Pick a friendly -Craftworlds unit within 18" pf the caster. It can move as if it were the movement phase.
-Sounds like Guardians are the same cost (they discussed points costs for troop unit, said 60 points for base Dire Avenger and Ranger squads, Guardians are closer to 80 points (which is what they are currently).
-Warlord trait on the Avatar allows it to target characters in the shooting phase even if they aren't the closest unit.
-Biel-tan attribute affects all shuriken weapons in the army.
-Warlord trait for +2 movement.
-Webway strike stratagem allows between 1-3 Craftworld units to enter the battlefielf using normal deep strike rules.
-Skystrike stratagem allows a unit with Fly to appear on the battlefield
-Banshee mask denies overwatch now instead of always striking first. They can advance and charge.
-Warwalkers now have an outflank ability
-Swooping Hawk guns are now Assault 4 instead of Rapid Fire 2, still 24" range.
-Swooping Hawks have dropped 4 points per model.
-Craftworlds can field a brigade for "less than 1100 points now."
-3 Dark Reapers are now ~80 points. Still have 3+ to hit regardless of modifiers in the shooting phase.
-Relic: When this models dies, on a 2+ it causes D3 mortal wounds. If those wounds kill a model, the model with the relic remains on the table with a single wound remaining. Only relic the Avatar can take.
-Phoenix Lords don't benefit or effect Craftworld attributes. Can be taken in any Craftowlrds army without messing up the detachment bonus.
-New warlord trait: Puritanical leader: All units within 6" of the warlord auto pass morale.
-Striking Scorpions down in points (didn't say how much).
-No big changes to Wraithknights.
-Everything in the book benefits from the Craftworlds attribute. -Hemlock Wraithfights of Alaitoc now have -2 to hit.
-Nightspinners down in points.
-Iyanden Warlord trait: At the start of the turn, roll a dice. On a 6, gain a command point.
-Falcon Grav tanks down by 50 points.
-Heavy weapons cheaper now.
-Warlocks are 35 points.
-Jain Zarr, all Banshees always fight first within 6" of her.
-No changes to Storm Guardians.
-Empower psychic power: +1 to wound rolls for a friendly unit.
6 Runes of Fate. Guide, Doom, Fortune, Mind War, 2 other they mentioned quickly.
-"Harlequins and Ynnari will be in a codex at some point."
-Implied they'd both get their own codex.
-Eldrad down in points plus some new lore.
-Windriders are 18 points with shuriken catapults. 28 for shuriken cannons.
-Ynnari rules packaged in the Triumverate box are the same as the index Xenos 1 rules.
-15 points for scatter lasers
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 19:26

What... no WK changes.... the worst unit in the index didnt get a change....... ffs

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 19:27

-1 to Hit wk could be bit more survivable Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 19:28

@WildCandy wrote:
-1 to Hit wk could be bit more survivable Wink


They already are an 80-100pt tax over all other units its value, this isnt enough, none of these rules are enough.

Mortarion is cheaper than the cheapest WK (Melee) and without extra shoulder guns.

If the Dbl Attacks and DS CP's work on it... then maybe it could be a good 1 turn shock assault, but your spending 5-6 CP's on 1 models to DS, charge (+2" b.c it NEEDS to get there), dbl attacks.

IDK if thats even worth the 490pts and 5-6 CP's

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 19:32

Mortarion is it's own can of worms, considering it's a beast in melee, and buffs other units, deals aura damage...

Yeah, but WK needs a serious price reduction, more wounds (6-Cool or all the time invu against shooting/FNP type ability. Still it is I think 70-80 pts more than IK, with identical stat line. Not counting weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 19:49

-"Harlequins and Ynnari will be in a codex at some point." I cant believe still was thinking they wouldnt, they literally said this 20+ x at the start of 8th

Anyways, i think i'll do a small Ally of Bikes for now, i love the bikes.

Farseer Bike
5 Shiny Spears
2x3 Bikes with Shuriken

This is 524pts. I think it will be very fun, i could have some really good CP strategies with this.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 20:05

@amishprn86 wrote:
What... no WK changes.... the worst unit in the index didnt get a change....... ffs

Or they just failed to mention it in the hour or so they had to talk. I'm sure we'll know one way or another if any changes were made to the wraithknight by the middle of next week, when people start getting their hands on the actual codex.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 20:13

@krayd wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
What... no WK changes.... the worst unit in the index didnt get a change....... ffs

Or they just failed to mention it in the hour or so they had to talk. I'm sure we'll know one way or another if any changes were made to the wraithknight by the middle of next week, when people start getting their hands on the actual codex.

Yeah i'm hoping this is all that it is, they just didnt want to talk about it or had time.

But since it has been a large topic i would have thought they at least mention "its cheaper"

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 21:17

Well honestly we already have the speed and shooting ... I realize that other tanks outclass our one "tank" (aka ravager) but even I the index we have the benefit of moving our full distance and not suffering the shooting penalty simply because the darklance and dissie cannons are assualt on our vehicles ... However, it might be a bit overkill if our ravagers got that ability as well, move roughly 7" and get to fire 6 lance shots or 18 dissie shots ... Then all we would need is an army or ravagers ... As 1 ravager would output a stupid amount of firepower ... Line up 5 with lances and 5 with dissies and just mow stuff down 30 lances and 90 dissie shots would solve any problem ... And of course we would have our 2-4 HQ to run around grabbing points as needed, or put this on a reaper get roughly the same result
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar soon, new Starter "OFFICIAL DATE" and Iyanden Focus   Fri Oct 20 2017, 21:41

Yeah i think Ravagers is perfect, the only think i want for them is DSing options or maybe turn one -1 to hit against. Just something to keep them alive for 1 turn.

I really just want a lot of our units and wargear to get cheaper, bring back WWP's for most of our army and finally fix poison weapons (aka make them better via strats)

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