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 On poison e splinter weapons.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Wed Oct 11 2017, 12:55

Just because the Raider is getting buffed, also doesnt mean the Venom cant either.....

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Wed Oct 11 2017, 23:00

So here's how I see it:

There needs to be viable reasons to take both a raider and a venom. Right now the venom is a bad choice all around due to its poor firepower (why take splinter cannons if a raider can get a disintegrator?), low transport capacity (minimum sized squads are not great outside of certain very specialized exceptions), and the difference in price tag being pretty low.

It's designed to transport small elite units into battle, but very few of our options work well as small units, due to how unelite many of our elites are. Combined with the option to take two small squads in a single raider for a far cheaper way to get things done and the venom is already lagging seriously behind.

Both need a buff, but right now the Venom is suffering.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Wed Oct 11 2017, 23:42

I'm confused by the hate for Venoms here. I much prefer them to Raiders; yes, they lack Dark Lances or Disintegrators, but they're Hard To Hit, faster, don't degrade and make for a more dispersed threat to your opponent. Both Kabalites and Trueborn - which, let's be honest, are our primary candidates for staying in transports - also work fine as MSU.

They're certainly not one of the units in our list that I'd consider trash.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Thu Oct 12 2017, 00:00

@Burnage wrote:
I'm confused by the hate for Venoms here. I much prefer them to Raiders; yes, they lack Dark Lances or Disintegrators, but they're Hard To Hit, faster, don't degrade and make for a more dispersed threat to your opponent. Both Kabalites and Trueborn - which, let's be honest, are our primary candidates for staying in transports - also work fine as MSU.

They're certainly not one of the units in our list that I'd consider trash.

I dont like them for 4 reason

1) Limited to 5 (not 6) capacity
2) I dont like Poison, never have
3) Dis Cannons are hard to get, poison is everywhere
4) Starweavers are 100% better in everyway and i have 5 of them, Troupes+Starweavers made me hate Wyches/Venoms...... (Wyches and Venoms is WHY i started DE, now Troupes and Starweavers are the playstyle i want, so rather play DE with Beasts, Tantalus and Ravagers/Raiders b.c its the other style i like)

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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Thu Oct 12 2017, 01:53

@amishprn86 : Yeah better not compare Eldar/Harlies to Dark eldar rules & point wise, personnaly I just find this truely depressing..

Anyway I like venoms for a melee oriented army (wyches/beasts) as it also provides a decent amount of firepower, and draw less attention when troups have disembarked.
Also their decent moves allow to get them crushcharging into enemy supports sitting in the back of the battlefield preventing them from firing.

Next turn disengage, fire, charge again.

I don't own many vehicule models, and I often use a mix of raiders and venoms (2 each) and they turn out pretty fine.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Thu Oct 12 2017, 03:07

Yeah i know i shouldnt compare, but they are the same points (with 2 Splinter cannons) and the Starweaver just does so much more damage, more capacity and 4++ :/ Troupes with no upgrades are only 2pts more than Bloodbrides, has 1 more attack with a 4++ always and can charge/move over models/terrain.

I just dont understand why Wyches, bloodbrides, and Venoms are so over costed.

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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Thu Oct 12 2017, 03:14

Quote :
Troupes with no upgrades are only 2pts more than Bloodbrides, has 1 more attack with a 4++ always and can charge/move over models/terrain.

Don't forget that they have pseudo-fly, occupy the Troops slot, have, arguably, better pistols, and that every model can customize both their Close Quarters and ranged weapon.

Seriously, you look at things like this and you just have to wonder what the designers were thinking.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Thu Oct 12 2017, 03:20

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
Troupes with no upgrades are only 2pts more than Bloodbrides, has 1 more attack with a 4++ always and can charge/move over models/terrain.

Don't forget that they have pseudo-fly, occupy the Troops slot, have, arguably, better pistols, and that every model can customize both their Close Quarters and ranged weapon.

Seriously, you look at things like this and you just have to wonder what the designers were thinking.

Yep... and sadly thats why i shelved my DE once again.... Well besides the Bomber and some Beast.

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PostSubject: Re: On poison e splinter weapons.   Thu Oct 12 2017, 13:22

(.. and they can hit and run, rend (range AND melee), ... Sad )

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