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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 14:22

I think it can be clear that I sometimes enjoy overthinking things.

Or if not, it will be.


Anyway, we're five Codecies in, and wishlisting is in full swing.
So I thought - why not do it with numbers?



We can add to that that we KNOW there will be EIGHT Astra Militarum sub-factions, each presumably with a Sub-Faction Strategem and Relic, but we don't yet have full details on the rest.
All we can say for sure is that Index Imperium 2 gives Astra Militarum 49 units. Whether that goes up, can't say for sure just yet.
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So, based on THAT, what can I hope for?

Drukhari currently have 32 units in Incex Xenos 1, which comes out as a reasonable average for the small, single-Faction armies like Death Guard and Grey Knights. More than Mechanicum though, who have Sub-Factions.
So I'd call that an average, put hope into new special characters (or at least special unit champions who buff those units - a Hellion Gang Chief for example) and say there probably won't be a great number of new units. If any.
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My interest lies elsewhere, specifically in the potential for Sub-Factions, each with a Stategem and a Relic.
The average is currently coming out as seven or eight. Granted we have a small sample size so far, but it is enough to reveal a trend.
Now, my original thinking was "Kabal, Special Kabal, Cult, Special Cult, Coven, Special Coven", however based on what we've seen so far, I don;t think thats likely to be the way things go. The sub-factions coming out have been specialized forces but ALL have been specifically characterized. They're not just "the tough ones", or "a kind of special", they are named and given characters.
Based on that, I'm currently imaging two Kabals, two Cults, two Covens, and in a wonderful world the Hellion Gang.
In my ideal world, that would mean:
Kabal of the Black Heart - their strength is in their size, so I think rules will probably allow for units to return to the battlefield if destroyed.
Add to that the Poisoned Tongue Get Lady Malys back in there, they are described as duplicitous, so a Strategem to redepoly a unit? Tricks are the thing there.
I would hope for Lilith's Cult Of Strife with emphasis on speed, and the Red Grief whose formation flying (vehciles close to each other) can provide buffs. Units buffing units.
Prophets Of Flesh seems obvious, with bonuses to saves or FnP, joined I would imagine by the Dark Creed whose many tactic is to play with Morale.
Needing a seventh if we stay at the low end, I would think the only thing that really fits as a sub-faction would be the Hellion Gangs, primarily whichever gang Sathonyx leads. Based on his old abilities, lets hope they have a cover save as their special rule?
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So ideal world, we can look at seven or eight sub-factions if everything pans out.
Of course its quite possible these numbers can change - although there are others named there have only traditionally been five rules for named Craftworlds for examples (though we can hold out hope for Altansar, etc).
Still, an interesting way of looking at what is likely rather than wished for.
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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 14:46

Excluding Primaris and Deathguard, since they were the focus of 8th edition, how many new units were issued in 8th so far?



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Lord Nakariial
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 14:47

My main wish is a Vect Lord of War fully pimped out with options up the wazoo that might allow us to compete with Primarch level shenanigans...does'nt need to be as hardy as a Primarch but at least as utilitarian.

I agree with your thinking though on the faction strategems, except I think it would be more likely to see three Kabals, two cults, two covens.

My other wish (as I love big centrepiece models) would be some giant Beast for a beastmaster or some huge abomination from a Coven.

I know any new models will be surprising, but a man can dream Wink

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 15:26

@merse24 wrote:
Excluding Primaris and Deathguard, since they were the focus of 8th edition, how many new units were issued in 8th so far?

The only things that come to mind if we exclude Primaris and Death Guard, is the Grey Knights Grand Master IN Nemisis Dreadknight.
That could be argued as just a gear upgrade, but it is technically a new addition that didn't previously exist. At least in Codecies, not Indexes. There were one or two new things in Indexes like the Troupe Master.

Which I suppose does lend credence to the fear that there will be nothing new for us either, BUT I would say there is hope on the grounds that we had the special characters not that long ago.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 15:34

We'll probably get more customization and options than the traitor and loyalist marines alike, who have Mark/Legion/Chapter specific traits and Strategems to represent all the fluff and to diversify the army as much as possible.

Prophets of Flesh, Wych Cult of Strife and Kabal of the Black Heart Strategems and MAYBE army wide rules will be available, but it may not be necessary with Power From Pain....we have our gripes with it but it's way better than Death to the False Emperor for example, it's good enough with a few small tweaks to just be the glue special rule for our army.

These assumptions might be wrong but they definitely go out the window if we're getting supplementary codexes for each of our factions.

I would also love some alien hydra for the Beastmaster to prod into battle but I'm more excited to see our Strategems, relic equivalents, and have our obsolete or undervalued units and weapons get the tweaks they need. I love playing Drukhari in 8th even now I just want to feel more like I'm playing a finished army.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 15:37

I definitely think we'll get a GW made Lord of War unit in our Codex though.

Whether that's Vect himself on the Dais or a massive pain engine who knows, but it feels like GW is up for trying their hand at FW type units that are more accessible.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 15:43

@lcfr wrote:
I definitely think we'll get a GW made Lord of War unit in our Codex though.

That's what we thought last time...

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 15:52

I just read the Armageddon focus, if they follow the trend we are gonna be a bunch of very happy vampire pirate emo space elves.

Also, can we get a powersword like the Blade of Conquest for the archon? I feel it is what the huskblade should be.
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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 16:25

I agree, I'm fully expecting to see a good bit of relics, and strategems to help us out. But I seriously doubt that we will see any new models. Just looking at it from a business perspective, they probably have all of their resources right now focused on getting the codices out the door. I think once all faction have had a codex release, then GW will shift their focus to introducing new models.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 16:29

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@lcfr wrote:
I definitely think we'll get a GW made Lord of War unit in our Codex though.

That's what we thought last time...

Yeah you might be right, I'm still wagging my tail.

Last time I played 40k was in 6th, after years and years without playing the game. I'm still an excited happy puppy, because I remember the long drought of our first Codex and just couldn't get over seeing new units and an expansion of lore.

This edition feels way better than even that.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 16:45

@merse24 wrote:
Excluding Primaris and Deathguard, since they were the focus of 8th edition, how many new units were issued in 8th so far?

Harlequin HQs.
Some Imperial Guard vehicles are going to be transfered from "Apocalypse only" to the core game (which is kinda huge).
Nemesis HQs for GK.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 17:12

To be fair though, there HAS been new stuff. Mortarion and the new Death Guard stuff is an example of an army getting lots of lovely new stuff.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 17:27

I've not been avidly comparing other faction's stats that change from their Index to their new Codex. Other than some new models, how often do models acquire new stats and abilities?
Is there hope for significant changes to the models I play today and what I might expect in a fancy new codex? (forget our playtest letter - if our codex was on par with the recent ones, what might we expect regarding models already played and available?)
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 21:20

@nerdelemental wrote:
I've not been avidly comparing other faction's stats that change from their Index to their new Codex. Other than some new models, how often do models acquire new stats and abilities?
Is there hope for significant changes to the models I play today and what I might expect in a fancy new codex? (forget our playtest letter - if our codex was on par with the recent ones, what might we expect regarding models already played and available?)

If your question is "How often does a unit get buff in the Inex-Codex transition ?", the answer would be 97% of the cases.

The Doctrine rules are pretty huge, and affect everyone. Stratagems are huge. Most units also get a price decrease/more special rules/more (or better) equipement options... It's really crazy.

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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 21:49

But as far as changes to the actual stat line of a unit, it's not very common, but they have certainly happened. The biggest change that comes to mind to me is the Chaos Obliterators weapons going from Assault 2 to Assault 4.



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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Fri Sep 29 2017, 22:47

Well, as it just hit me that not to long ago we were guessing at a teaser picture for a model, and there seems to be at least some consensus that it was a Wrack blade ... I took a closer look at one of my taloi the other day and realized that one of the "macro-scalpels" that can be modelled on it looks very much like a sythe perhapsebly it is a snap shot of a bigger scalpel that goes on a coven lord of war (I have been asking for this since lords of war became a thing ... Emailed gw a few times to see if they could make it happen...) ... Eh maybe that's just my wishful thinking of wanting to have possibly inspired something in the 40k universe... And did anyone notice that the guard now have a way to gain more CP? The Kurov's Aquila let's them gain a CP whenever their opponent uses a CP on a 5+ ... Hopefully we get something like that ... As it fits the true kin
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 10:18

THere are a few changes in the new Militarum, for example size of Conscript units, and new rules for Leman Russ turret firing (which is INSANE).
Marines and Chaos less so, and I don't think Grey Knights changed at all, BUT they would have had less playtesting by the community (and been hitting the printers before playtesting could happen).
I think Militarum is the first where there was a chance for feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 14:22

@Squidmaster wrote:
THere are a few changes in the new Militarum, for example size of Conscript units, and new rules for Leman Russ turret firing (which is INSANE).
Marines and Chaos less so, and I don't think Grey Knights changed at all, BUT they would have had less playtesting by the community (and been hitting the printers before playtesting could happen).
I think Militarum is the first where there was a chance for feedback.
I wouldn't call the change to the Leman Russ insane, the LR is pretty terrible at the moment after all. The codexes have all seen a small number of changes to stats and rules but widespread points reductions on units considerd overcosted.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 15:35

I still want an oversized shadow lord of Aelindrach for a center piece. Something that gives cover or hard to hit in an area, or applies nightfight rules for the enemy.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 16:15

I wonder if Codex Craft Worlds will give us an indication to how the Dark Eldar codex will be setup? If you look at the Space Marine/ Chaos Marine codex they do have parallel traits. The dark eldar could really be broken down into 3 subfactions each with different traits.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 16:38

Elder have craftworlds. They'll sit like neatly like marines and the rest. They'll invent rules for necron dynasties and nid hive fleets and various or waaaghs.. my bet is us and the tau are last. My guess is well get three sub factions. Cult coven and Kabal. .
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 16:40

Is any other army quite as divided in terms of sub-factions as the Dark Eldar? I'm honestly wondering if we're going to wind up seeing different codexes for Kabals, Cults, and Covens.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 16:49

There is no way we'll get different codexes. The different subfactions will probably be a couple of kabals, a couple of cults and a couple of covens.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Sat Sep 30 2017, 16:52

@Logan Frost wrote:
There is no way we'll get different codexes. The different subfactions will probably be a couple of kabals, a couple of cults and a couple of covens.

That's what i think : 3-4 of each.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Trends and wishlisting from that I suppose   Mon Oct 02 2017, 10:25

There is a lot of lore surrounding the many different Imperial Guard worlds and their different regiments. They were always going to get some special strategem love in this new codex.

With Dark Eldar where the various Kabal lore is a little thin to say the least, I wouldn't hold out much hope for lots of different faction rules.
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