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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 06:14

What grinds my gears is what could have been. We could have had the Great Harlequin, Lady Malys, and maybe some neat new Autarch or something for Craftworlds. Instead we get 3 characters no one asked for for a faction that didn't even exist.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 09:16

That's so true...we got 3 new characters nobody wanted and at the same time GW took a huge dump on Vect!
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 10:47

It is true that the "Triumvirat" is traditionnally 3 leaders from 3 different factions, and it would have been great to say 1 Character from each CW, harlies and DE that would team up for the "resurrection" of Aeldari.

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Lord Nakariial
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 11:45

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It is true that the "Triumvirat" is traditionnally 3 leaders from 3 different factions, and it would have been great to say 1 Character from each CW, harlies and DE that would team up for the "resurrection" of Aeldari.

They kind of did fluff wise, and there's definite mixings of the two, but yes a representative for each faction to unite under Yncarne would have been cool.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 15:58

Yvraine came from a CW.
The Visarch was a CW exarch that posed as an Incubus only to betray them.
I'm not sure what the Yncarne is, but it's definitly not DE/Harly.


So to me the "Triumvirat" is 66% CW and 33% demon/god.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 16:12

I actually enjoy what they did with the fluff of the Visarch and Yvraine, they show that CWE and DE are two face of the same coin and that eldar are divided only by cultural customs.
Was the creation of another faction necessary? No.
Was the creation of two new fluff Mary Sue necessary? No.
Could they do the same with existing characters? Yes.
They just took a very wrong approach to an interesting concept.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Tue Sep 26 2017, 17:15

I kind of wish they'd used established characters. Malys, Yriel, and I dunno...Motley or whatever.

I DO really love the Ynnari as a concept, though.
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Royalecheez
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Wed Sep 27 2017, 05:19

I kind of feel like the ynnari will be just included wrthin both of the aeldari codex. Like each will have a few pages dedicated to all 3 characters and their tables. On the other side of the token I'm sure geeeubs could find a way to make an entire supplement out of 3 characters. Craftworld is already confirmed so definently not all 3 factions in 1 book which I prefer.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Wed Sep 27 2017, 11:59

I'm positive I'm in a small minority: I hope for two books: Craftworld, and All Other Eldar.
edit: unless they have plans to explode the Ynnari into a fully realized sub-faction. Even if Harlequin were to get bolstered with new units and models I think there'd still be room in a Non-Crafts Eldar book for that. *IF* there's plans to differentiate Drew Carey sub-sub-faction models and expand upon their range more then I'd be very behind a stand alone DE book.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Wed Sep 27 2017, 12:34

I just hope we get some variety back for our HQ choice, are GW really telling me that a Tau Ethereal can get himself a hoverboard but my succbus cant get herself a reaver jetbike? My Archon cant get a skyboard or my hammy cant attach wings to himself despite being some how able to carry out the procedure to create scourges?

The writing of the Yinnari is god awful, no subtley or things left to the imagination of the reader. It's team superfriends who know everyone and can do everything. I dont want that rubbish anywhere near our codex :/
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Wed Sep 27 2017, 12:42

@Vindicavi wrote:
I just hope we get some variety back for our HQ choice, are GW really telling me that a Tau Ethereal can get himself a hoverboard but my succbus cant get herself a reaver jetbike? My Archon cant get a skyboard or my hammy cant attach wings to himself despite being some how able to carry out the procedure to create scourges?

The writing of the Yinnari is god awful, no subtley or things left to the imagination of the reader. It's team superfriends who know everyone and can do everything. I dont want that rubbish anywhere near our codex :/

So much this!
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Thu Sep 28 2017, 22:23

@Vindicavi wrote:
The writing of the Yinnari is god awful, no subtley or things left to the imagination of the reader. It's team superfriends who know everyone and can do everything. I dont want that rubbish anywhere near our codex :/

I disagree. They would have a great place in our underground dungeons.

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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 00:22

@dumpeal wrote:
@Vindicavi wrote:
The writing of the Yinnari is god awful, no subtley or things left to the imagination of the reader. It's team superfriends who know everyone and can do everything. I dont want that rubbish anywhere near our codex :/

I disagree. They would have a great place in our underground dungeons.


Well, that IS precisely what Urien Rakarth wants them for.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 00:57

It would add so much character to them if they were like a Haemonculus experiment gone wrong, or they died but regenerated and were some Archons plaything or something. That woulda been a cool backstory.

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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 01:03

I like the Ynnari in a very broad sense as a faction, because Ynnead's been part of the fluff for decades and it's pretty awesome to finally see it hit the tabletop.

The implementation so far is leaving something to be desired, though.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 12:25

@TeenageAngst wrote:
It would add so much character to them if they were like a Haemonculus experiment gone wrong, or they died but regenerated and were some Archons plaything or something. That woulda been a cool backstory.

I think their problem is entirely the lack of anything new in terms of characters. It feels like a bad fanfiction writing, mysterious stranger arrives in a place and gets involved with all the main players and characters, they are suddenly the entire centre of the plot with that ol'dastardly Vect shaking his fist angrily at them as the slip away once again.

Then that super-awesome gladiator lady joins them because they are the cool team. Then they run into another world changing chaos character who they just so happen to have the solution to his problems and tricks him.

There is just so much wrong with them. In principle they are a very cool idea, a faction worshiping the god of death and seeking to unite the Eldar. There was so much potential, for intrigue over what their goals actually are, is the God even real or are they Eldar corrupted by Slaanesh? How do their goals compare with that of the Harlequins and the whole Lady Malys plot arch. Maybe the Harlequins refuse to fight alongside them and it is hinted that they know something the other Eldar don't.

Could have been interesting but we just get Mary Sue, her stalker and team superfriends somehow solving the problems of everyone they meet.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 13:49

@Vindicavi wrote:

Could have been interesting but we just get Mary Sue, her stalker and team superfriends somehow solving the problems of everyone they meet.

Sounds like the plot to Scooby Doo, Jabber Jaw, Speed buggy, and Josie and the Pussy Cats.

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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 14:01

@Vindicavi wrote:
There was so much potential, for intrigue over what their goals actually are, is the God even real or are they Eldar corrupted by Slaanesh?

They still might push this direction.

The Yncarne looks a lot like a Slaanesh greater demon, after all, and a few of GW's summaries of the Ynnari take care to mention that others in the setting think that they're corrupted.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 16:42

That's why i'm not tented to play Ynnari : it looks a hell lot like heresy to me Smile

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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 19:18

I think the Ynnari have a lot of potential that I would like to see explored in future revisions of their faction. After all they merely changed one soul consuming deity for another. To think that the latter really treats you any better is naive at best in this grimdark universe.

I don't mind that so far the Ynnari are treated as this "awesome superteam who can save everybody, poentailly", but admittedly I don't play them either. The DE fluff also wasn't anything worth mentioning in 3rd edition after all.

I think the Ynnari have an interesting starting basis to actually become the next big, evil thing. On cosmic scales, that is. Certainly, there is a lot of potential and I can see many interesting twists that could await us.

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Vindicavi
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Fri Sep 29 2017, 20:13

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I don't mind that so far the Ynnari are treated as this "awesome superteam who can save everybody, poentailly", but admittedly I don't play them either. The DE fluff also wasn't anything worth mentioning in 3rd edition after all.

I think the Ynnari have an interesting starting basis to actually become the next big, evil thing. On cosmic scales, that is. Certainly, there is a lot of potential and I can see many interesting twists that could await us.

A good point, about our fluff back in 3rd ed, but I think its missing what has changed at GW since then. The quality of the fluff writing has spiralled massively down in recent years, despite the efforts of a few people, there have been large sweeping changes which GW have simply doubled down on rather than looking over and changing.

I could go on about new crons being the prime example of this, but I'll simply say that the new writers don't seem to know what made the old fluff great; the idea of mysteries, leaving things unexplained and most importantly making the galaxy feel big with interesting characters with stories everywhere. Its quickly becoming hero-hammer 40,000 with no events taking place without big pre-existing names in the mix. It's like they have a list of approved "badass" characters and they are scared to come up with anyone new because they don't trust the characters to stand on their own merits.

TL:DR I doubt this will get better, they need new writers.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Sat Sep 30 2017, 14:46

I don't think the 'evil' of the Ynnari stems from Ynnead being Slaanesh level evil. Ynnead isn't destroying the souls of the Eldar it consumes, it preserves them in a similar way to how the world spirits or the soul matrix of the exodites/craftworlders do.

The evil of the Ynnari stems from empowering a broken people. They're circling extinction with no real way back, with all their glories in the past. The eldar, of all stripes, have always been a broken people in the lore. There is a great trend in gaming and literature to ascribe a lot of underdog qualities to groups like this. If nothing else, there's a backdrop of either pity or contempt that people tend to feel for them.

The light side of the Ynnari coin is that it offers hope; it's the first real hope the eldar have had in millennia. Instead of sitting in their monastic craftworlds and staring at candles or sitting in Commorragh having cocainecannibalstripper parties, there is the possibility that crap might get better, which is a huge shift for them.

The dark side of the Ynnari is that the eldar are not kind or benevolent people. They have occasionally dealt with other races in a beneficial manner because necessity required it, but if given the restoration of their supremacy in the galaxy, that goes out the window. There is a lot of territory to be 'regained,' which means there are lots of 'lesser species' that are going to get purged from planets they've been living on for thousands of years, who will be completely mystified when these space elves show up and start giving them 'payback' for crimes that were committed by ancestors they don't even know.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Sat Sep 30 2017, 15:20

The real problem with Ynnead is that it is a god spawned from the eldar collective psyche, just like slaanesh.
Eldar don't have control over it.
Since it is fueled by the souls of dead eldar it is probable that what it desires is for the eldar to keep dying.
It gives momentary hope, but it could be extremely hurtful on the long run.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Sat Sep 30 2017, 15:43

It isn't just the god of death, though. In much the same way that Slaanesh is the god of two polar opposites, Ynnead is both the god of death and rebirth. That's why it has the ability to revitalize the eldar who follow it. That's also why it's able to restore Rubric Marines to life. (Which certainly implies it can do that to anything that's dead.)
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PostSubject: Re: New Codex   Sat Sep 30 2017, 23:23

I think the evil of the Ynnari stems from a complete lack of competent writing. What they might be and what they might stand for are utterly valueless guesses in the face of such an awful storyline. I would rather no progression than bad progression .

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