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cwoody0
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PostSubject: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Thu Nov 03 2011, 18:26

So in the fluff for the Venom in Codex: Dark Eldar it says a paranoid Archon will sometimes ride to war by himself in his own personal Venom. He does this because if he's alone there's no one there to stab him in the back.
My first thought upon reading that was how cool it would be to have a Venom with only an Archon in it on the tabletop. It would be very fluffy, and in most games I've played my Archon has basically killed everyone he touched.
However, Archons can't take a dedicated transport. They have to join a unit that already has one.
It seemed that everywhere else in the book the rules and actions on the tabletop stuck to the fluff very well - did that disconnect between the fluff and the tabletop bother anyone else? What other disconnects have you noticed?
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Thu Nov 03 2011, 19:16

I was thinking about this recently with the new Necron Command Barge, perhaps this may set a new precedent and we may get a retcon.... or it's simply a one off and a unique toy for the Necrontyr.

Either way I loved the imagery of an Archon on his own, riding atop a Venom with only a few concubines for company, scything through enemies. Alas just some nice fluff. Can't think of anything else similar though I'm sure others will.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Thu Nov 03 2011, 21:59

But they can take Venom or Raider (well, IMHO only Raider is ok) with court.

I liked how You could pick Trukk for lone Warboss in 3rd ed Ork codex. Now I'm even more happy with Warbike Boss.

It's sad we can't give Archie bike/skyboard.
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cwoody0
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Thu Nov 03 2011, 22:58

Yeah, you'd think that Archons, being the Dark Eldar with the most wealth, could take basically whatever gear they wanted.
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Mon Nov 07 2011, 09:35

If there's one thing that really stands out in the 'disconnection' department, it's tormentor fields.

Why hype them up so much and give such a perfect reason for them to have assault grenades without any of this uncivilised ball-throwing, then not give them any rules?

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LostAlone
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 04:09

Didn't there used to be an eldar special character who rode a vyper like a chariot ? That was such an awesome idea, and the venom model really lends itself to this kind of conversion. Would just be amazing. I am somewhat sad that while you can get a transport for the archons court, the court itself is pretty bad and every other place you could put the archon is a better way. If the court gave us the option of say 0-3 incubi as well as the others, then hell yes, but not in its current state.

@Local_Ork wrote:

It's sad we can't give Archie bike/skyboard.

A million times this. We are almost unique in that our HQ units cannot improve their mobility. Bikes of various forms, jetpacks, wings, etc seem to be par for the course in every other army. At the very least we should be able to put a succubus on a bike/skyboard, since reavers and hellions are supposed to be their buddies.
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 04:20

@Anggul wrote:
If there's one thing that really stands out in the 'disconnection' department, it's tormentor fields.

Why hype them up so much and give such a perfect reason for them to have assault grenades without any of this uncivilised ball-throwing, then not give them any rules?

I've never heard of a piece of non-wargear getting multiple mentions in a description without a damned bit of rules. Not sure how they send shockwaves of torment without s damn bit of rules.

Oh yeah, mentioning that some Archons are so paranoid that they ride alone in a Venom and then not providing an option to do that is just wrong. Mad

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Ciirian
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 04:25

I agree with the thoughts above: If an Archon is supposed to be the strongest, most wealthy and most badass member of his Kabal, wouldn't he get to choose how he goes to combat? From what I read, many Archons roze to power in many different ways (Some being Kabalites, some Reavers, some Hellions, and some Weapon manufacturers). With all this variety wouldn't there be someone who enjoys fighting in a way the way he used to do it? Don't see why not an Archon couldn't ride a Hellion skyboard or a Jetbike; maybe the armor would make them too heavy? But I am sure an Archon could afford some customization.

Also, unlike others, I really do like the Court just because it seems like a "cool" unit. However, I agree why wouldn't an Archon ride around in a Venom like a personal Chariot. Even tho rules for the Dais aren't so great I am planning a conversion around it for my Archon+Courts personal ride (with magnetized guns) to use as a regular Raider/Dais or extra Ravager if needed.

Another thought I had was that if Scourges are Warriors/Trueborn who pay for their surgery to have wings grafted on, would't one think that at some point in time an Archon might want something similiar? Not complaining about rules, just my thoughts I had.
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abjectus
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 05:57

A fix for both the court and archon transport would be change 1-x to 0-x, then a archon could take a zero model court to ride in its transport, and people could pick the model/rules they liked for court. A 0-3 incubi 0-5 trueborn would be sweet, but not as easy to change as 1-x in faq.
I felt bad for all the people with nice archon/haemonculi bike/skyboard conversions when I saw that they were no longer a option in codex.
Maybe forgeworld will fix this when imperial armour 1? features dark eldar.
I think the tormentors equal assualt grenades would have been great, instead we have background floating in a ruleless void.
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 14:02

@abjectus wrote:
A fix for both the court and archon transport would be change 1-x to 0-x, then a archon could take a zero model court to ride in its transport, and people could pick the model/rules they liked for court. A 0-3 incubi 0-5 trueborn would be sweet, but not as easy to change as 1-x in faq.
I felt bad for all the people with nice archon/haemonculi bike/skyboard conversions when I saw that they were no longer a option in codex.
Maybe forgeworld will fix this when imperial armour 1? features dark eldar.
I think the tormentors equal assualt grenades would have been great, instead we have background floating in a ruleless void.

So you take a unit... to not take the unit at all, but simply take one of its options? It makes far more sense to simply change the transport option from being a choice for the Court to being a choice for the Archon, rather than the "unit with no models" Court idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 14:18

I... don't see (tactical wise) point of putting lone Archon into Transport if absolutely everything can have one (Unless You are "Down with the clown" and want make "Murder-go-round").

"Problem" with 3rd ed Ork Warboss (mentioned by me) was lack of transport options for Orks.
0-1 Looted wagon (Land Raider Smile ), 0-1 Battlewagon and up to 3 Trukks from overpriced Trukk Boyz.

So basically for smaller games You pretty much have to take Boss (mandatory 1-1 choice that cost 100+ points since You wanted Klaw, Big Choppa, 3+ save and 5++ with Ld boom), Trukk and Boyz/'ardboyz/Skarboyz.
Good 4th ed transports were metal coffins of painful death in flames so I didn't care too much.

I would be more than happy to see either/both Raver and Scourge/Hellion options. Perhaps future addition to Succubi entry?
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 15:02

@Local_Ork wrote:
I... don't see (tactical wise) point of putting lone Archon into Transport if absolutely everything can have one (Unless You are "Down with the clown" and want make "Murder-go-round").


I very much like the idea of a "Murder-go-round!"! Razz

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 15:17

I see lack of juggalo-mobile a serious design flaw that need to be FAQed like SS/TH and Cyclones in BT/DA codices... But Archon don't quite need transport.
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 15:24

But if you called it a "Murder-go-round" I would have to take it just for the name!

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cwoody0
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Tue Nov 08 2011, 21:50

Sure, it's not necessarily tactically viable to have the Archon by himself in a Venom, it's just a cool idea. Same with Scourge wings, bikes, or skyboards.
Maybe strictly speaking of rules, the Archon is just so rad and badass that putting him on any of these other things he'd be too OP to allow?
Either way, that's a shame. Archon should, strictly speaking of fluff, be able to do whatever he wants.
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abjectus
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Wed Nov 09 2011, 05:43

I figured the 0-x would fix one of the complaints about the court, I like all the court so i'll take all of them anyway, but as side effect it would allow taking one transport without a unit. A IC could join this no model unit to deploy in transport, archon is so paranoid that he only trusts himself to be in his court. A white dwarf article would be ideal though, add transport option, wings, skyboard, and bike options to archon. Add trasport option for succubi. Let court include trueborn/incubi for fans of old retinue. and why can't haemonculi that what to fly trade services with each other, the winged haemonculi conversions would cool. Maybe a with opponents consent disclaimer if there worried about tournaments.
I second the archon should be able to due whatever he wants. More modeling opportunities is never a bad thing, unless it is excuse to not make core models.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Wed Nov 09 2011, 16:11

The 0-X sorta works, but it's mentally a bit of an odd leap (you'll buy a unit for free to get a dedicated transport...do they count as a KP still? What are they) also, rulesewise, for the Archon to start on that dedicated transport he'd have to join the unit that doesn't exist. It's a much more elegant solution to just have him able to buy his own dedicated transport (which would be awesome on multiple levels, because that means he could join a squad of Halies and they could start on the transport as well, oh the dream...)

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abjectus
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Wed Nov 09 2011, 20:51

They would only give a kill point if opponent killed the models that don't exist. He could join the unit, he would be in coherency since it would be impossible to be more then 2" from something that doesn't exist.

Probably would be simpler to just give archon transport option, fewer headaches that way then 0-x, it is some brain twisting logic.
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PostSubject: Re: Archon in Dedicated Transport   Thu Nov 10 2011, 04:20

Honestly, with the 125pt warrior squad with blaster and venom/extra cannon spammed in every list do we really give a hoot about even more kill points? Very Happy

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