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 Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 12:38

Yep I see your point the Warlock is cheaper meaning you have more points for other things in the army...but for me he is going to die, simples, so you are giving warlord away for free. I would rather have my HQ on a DE transport.

Yes I think it is a mistake to take Splinter Cannons as an anti horde option. They are overpriced and a Kabalite Warrior with a Splinter Cannon costs the same as 3 Kabalite Warriors. So then it is a choice between a bit better range or 3 wounds vs. 1 wound.

Anti horde for us is very weak right now but beasts are perhaps the best way to go.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 14:12

Actually the plan was something like.

Venom w/SC and 5x kabalites
Venom w/SC and 5x kabalites

For AI, anti-horde alternatively.
With a reaper, for those adaptable 2d6 (d6), shots.
Then AT, would be the reaper and scourges.

Ive noticed alot of tanks and stronger infantry in my store, with one guy that will probably run a full dread list which is why I want alot of DLs, hence scourges.

Reaper would also potentially help me "kite" the dreaded conscript hordes with its "cannot advance" shots.
That coupled with the venoms -1 hit, + potentially a warlocks psyc spell should hopefully help me be fine vs ìt?

And I do realize the warlock will just die, but my experience with previous leages is that we have ALOT of cover, and I wonder how much focus they will really put on a 37p HQ thats just staying out of LOS when they have alot of other high priority targets like the reaper + scourges.

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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:00

As others have stated, the major drawback of taking the Warlock is that he's an easy Victory Point/Warlord kill if that's in the mission - so I would check ahead of time to see what the victory conditions are for your league matches.

4x DL Scourges at this point level are just unnecessary AND they are going to be a huge liability because they will fold to any appreciable firepower if your opponent has any sense of target priority. For 5 more points and one less DL you can get a Ravager which will be way more survivable, plus you can move and shoot with it so 3 DL's hitting on 3+ is probably better than 4 DL's hitting on 4+. And again, at 600 points, you're just not likely to run into anything that requires 4 DL's to take down. Blasters can do the job just fine, from the safety of a transport.

Splinter fire sucks. You really can't rely on it to take down hordes. But a squad of Incubi will carve through them in a round or two of combat with ease.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:06

So, I´ll try to drop a squad of kabalites in favor of a squad of incubi cutting scourges in order to do so and put them in the venom instead.
Downgrade the venom´s to rifles and see if I can squeeze in a ravager there aswell.

Should get me a decently low drop for a potential first turn + fairly tanky army with atleast 3 priority threats in the incubi/reaper/ravager.
And I´ll see what can be done with the HQ.

Dont have a list with Points infront of me right now but fairly certain I wont be able to bring all these goodies, but its a a work in progress and there is Always the 1200p escalation to Think about too.
Odds are going off previous leages, that it wont be any kill objectives.

Dont Think I dont Think hard about all of the advice Im getting here, I just like to debate pros and cons and actually get my own spin on things and get feedback on that aswell seeing as I actually enjoy the listbuilding aspect of this game aswell.


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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:18

Yep I second that...I would rather have x4 Blasters riding in a Venom than x4 DL on Scourge.  But it will cost you extra points to do that.  The -1 to hit vs Guard will be cool as well.

I would say that at 600 points you won't find that you are effective against both hordes and armour lists.  There just isn't enough points to play with.

Incubi are cool, but in 600 point games will they earn back their points? Maybe add them once you add more points.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 20:54

I gotta admit that one of the main draws for me with the scourges was/is that my opponent will have to keep them in mind and not just mindlessly advance everything towards me.

I actually have gotten a few games in with them, and my understanding from my opponents have been that they havent played vs any DE players before so they underestimated what the scourges could do.

Something I did keep in mind was that these opponents were mainly marine players and that that they just blindly marched everything towards me (they got first turn) and were never quite able to get to the scourges due to my raiders coming in and presenting multiple targets.

But I do believe that this isnt really a good benchmark to have?
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Thu Sep 28 2017, 08:59

I have some Scourge and I love the models but as yet I have not included them in any list under 1000 points. The main reason for that is because they are just far too squishy. At 600 points they would have to play a major role in the army and if that unit were to be wiped out, it would make the game a hard slog.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Thu Sep 28 2017, 11:43

My experience with them has been that in 500-600p matches, DS into cover at the edge of their range their 3+ save makes them able to take some fire, and also if they commit to killing them its less fire on my raiders.

But Im starting more and more to believe my opponents just havent played vs DE enough to know to take them out.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Thu Sep 28 2017, 12:02

Defo if you have some good cover with line of sight then that helps
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 29 2017, 05:38

How viable would at the 1200p limit part of the leage, to have a few dark reapers with maybe an autarch for rerolls be.
Or is it not worth it, seeing as they most likely will have to footslog to cover, but should be really golden after that.

If I do run the warlock at the 600p mark, this would also be pretty decent in combination with him, if Im not mistaken.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 29 2017, 13:53

So after all the feedback Ive gotten from you all here, I´ve changed the list abit to.

HQ
Warlock

TROOP
5x Kab-warrior w/blaster, PGL, agonizer
5x Kab-warrior w/blaster, PGL, agonizer

ELITE
5x Incubi w/demiklaive

HEAVY SUPPORT
1x Reaper

TRANSPORT
1x Raider w/ shock prow
1x Venom


Now I know I´ve gotten feedback that I shouldnt run the warlock, but I feel like in order to make room for Another HQ I have to sacrifice too much in other areas.

Also I had an idea to run reapers w/potential autharch for rerolls in the 1200p game, which a warlock would synergise pretty well with.

But if you still Think that not running the warlock would be a better idea then I´ll have to rethink.
None of the previous leages etc, have had anything special to do with killing the warlord, one even had where the enemy lost by killing it, something to keep in mind.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 29 2017, 14:37

I wouldn't tell you that running Reapers and Warlocks or any other Craftworld is a bad idea...its just that I don't like Craftworld Eldar and I would prefer to make pure Dark Eldar lists.

The idea of using Craftworld as an ally is a major turn off for me...it just doesn't sit right.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Oct 21 2017, 21:25

Been awhile since I last checked this, I thank you all of your responses.
I have since been playing around a little with DE lists a little more, and think I have found out a list that might be alright.

HQ
Archon w/blaster & agoniser - 73

TROOP
5x Kabalite warrior w/blaster - 50
5x Kabalite warrior w/blaster - 50
5x Kabalite warrior w/blaster - 50

HEAVY SUPPORT
Reaper - 150

TRANSPORT
Raider w/DL & prow - 116
Raider w/DL & prow - 116

This does go over the 600p limit by 4, but that can "easily" be fixed by doing some switching around.
Now I could go with 2 archons and 4x kabalites, and run a battalion, or reduce the kabs to 3 and mix in some mandrakes.

But this lists up here I feel is really basic with essentially no "cute" tricks like scourges and whatnot, which might be just what I need as a relatively new player.
The only fear I have is that its not the greatest vs hordes, but it should be decent vs most other things at that point limit, right?
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