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 Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)

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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 22 2017, 14:49

Hello everyone, I´m a relatively new DE player that decided to participate in my local stores escalation leage/tournament that starts off in a couple of months.

it starts at 600 Point and then after approximately 2 weeks goes up to 1200.

So I´ve made a list for 600 and would love some more experienced players input (noone plays DE here).

I havent put together a list like this before, so please excuse any errors or if its difficult to read.
Now this list ends at 603, so its not quite finished, however it should be relatively easy to change up a little.

HQ
Warlock - 37p

TROOP
10x kabalite warrior, w/SC - 85p
10x kabalite warrior  w/SC - 85p

FAST ATTACK
5x Scourges w/4x DL - 150 p

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider w/ DL - 115p
Raider w/ DL - 115p

This Point list has 13p to spare if Ive calculated it correctly, am at work right now, so I dont have access to my regular tools/program/sheets
I was thinking of maybe adding a shredder to one of the kabalite squads and/or prows on both of the boats.

The reason for the eldar HQ is as what Ive understood it fine from a gameplay perspective, and Ive done a few games with an archon and found it wildly underperforming so I´m not sure its worth the Points.

Also I Think the warlock can use his factions psychic "spells" so I would pretty much just have him run towards the area where I would down my scourges while staying in cover/behind units as much as possible.

But finding this forum, I figured I would ask some more experienced people.
Would love any input that you could give.

The players participating will be around 16 players of different factions, though I do know there will probably be 5-6 Guards, loads of marines (both evil and "good") and a few necrons.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 22 2017, 15:44

I'd drop the warlock, his buffs do not work on the rest of the army and his debuffs means you give warlord kill if you try to use them.

My list would be:

HQ
Archon, agoniser, blaster. PGL - 76p

TROOP
10x kabalite warrior, blaster, PGL - 88p
5x kabalite warrior , blaster, PGL - 53p

FAST ATTACK
5x Scourges w/4x DL - 150 p

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider, DL, shock prow - 116p
Raider, DL, shock prow - 116p

Total - 599
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 22 2017, 16:55

It doesnt have to be these specific units either, any suggestions on how to improve it beyond this?
Or is this a decent take all comers list.
Had a thougth to try and squeeze in a ravager etc.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 22 2017, 17:38

In 600p it's a good multipurpose list, going to 1200 the raveger would be the first thing to add, or you can swap the scourges with the ravager and then add them later, but you'd meet to tinker with the points a bit.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Fri Sep 22 2017, 21:27

Alright, thanks alot for the quick replies.
Just so I know, is it not possible to run the warlock like that, at all?

Most of the allure he had for me is that he is really cheap, but Im not that experienced with cross faction armys.


Also is it worth it to experiment with running a squad of trueborns instead of 2 regular kabalite troops, and "downgrading" one of the raiders to a venom, some other changes required too but thats the biggest ones.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 00:20

His powers work only on craftworld eldar units and the enemy, but he can not embark in raiders, so he's on foot all the time and he wants to be 18" from the enemy to cast. So you have your HQ all alone on the battlefield, moving 7" (if I remember correctly) 18" from the enemy, he maybe casts once and he dies in retaliation.
If you really don't like the archon (or once you are playing 1200p) you can bring a farseer on bike with doom. He costs more than a archon but can be used efficiently in a DE list.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 08:55

Alright, thanks.

Anything you could add on the trueborn stuff I added, or are they not worth it in such a low point game.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 12:29

Keep the warriors and the raider for now, trueborn cost a little too much for a 600p list, as for venoms you have to try them and see if they suit your playstile, but I'd avoid them, since they cost too much for my taste.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 19:04

What are your thoughts on using an haemy instead of archon, and "saying" your transports have the "coven" tag for 1+ toughness.
Is it even that easy to mix tags like that, or am I missing something.

I know the weakness with that particular strat is him getting sniped/deep striked but seeing as I dont recon it´ll be too much of that in a 600p game, maybe its worth looking into?
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 19:14

It works, but for the aura to have effect he needs to be outside the transport and he is slightly more costly than an archon, so you have to shave some point from the rest.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 19:39

Alright, just figured bumping them up to T6 is very worth it vs stuff like guard.
Also makes it easier since taking him into the 1200 match is prob something I will do.

Is the thing with bringing an archon, that he can take the court of archon with him if necessary?
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 19:52

I don't have much experience with the court I'm this edition, but we probably have better stuff in the index that can do the same thing the court can do.
The only perks the archon have is that he's cheaper than the others and he has a BS 2+ blaster.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sat Sep 23 2017, 21:10

But I am correct in that you can take the warlock in a detachment of DEs right?
Cause one of the people thats played awhile here said its not possible cause they are enemies, but I cant find anywhere that its not allowed cause they are both aeldari.

Just that he cant use his abilities on your units.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Sun Sep 24 2017, 02:40

Exactly.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Tue Sep 26 2017, 12:27

What are the thoughts on for example, playing around with the Points and knowing that all my LGS tables have alot of cover to take the eldar sniper HQ, and infiltrating him in a highup cover and either DS the scourges in the same location or a different one to force a split of the enemy forces.

I know that out of the 16 participants there are atleast 6-7 AM players and I have a feeling that a sniper would be useful, but I dont know if its Worth going that far.

I do however Think he´d be more useful than the archon, but there is no harm in asking people that might have already had experience with similar things already.

If nothing else him + scourges in different location might make my opponent hesitate, and the tables are small enough they will both be able to pretty much cover the entirety of it.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Tue Sep 26 2017, 13:17

I don't have experience with snipers, so I wouldn't know, but you can ask in the tactical threads.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Tue Sep 26 2017, 15:08

For me you should only take the Haemy if you intend on taking a unit that he buffs...wracks are cool I love the models and I think I will be using that combo.

You could go with...

Haemy - Electro Whip, Stinger Pistol 90pts

Wracks x8 - Electro Whip 95pts

Kabs x10 - Blaster 85pts

Scourge x5 - x3 Sharcarbine, x2 Blaster 95pts

Raider - Dark Lance, 115pts

Raider - Dark Lance, 115pts

600 points
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Tue Sep 26 2017, 18:36

Was probably going to not use wracks etc for the 600p list, but seeing as I was somewhat raider heavy and I know there´s alot of S3 shooting, buffing their T up to 6 seemed like a good idea.

And then later on at the 1200p level adding on a couple of wracks, most likely.

But I´ll take your tip in consideration, have about a month + a few days to decide.
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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Tue Sep 26 2017, 22:09

I recently went undefeated with DE in an 8 week escalation league (starting at 500 points and adding 250 each week) - here's the 500pt list I started with:

Archon w/ Blaster + Agonizer
5x Kabalite w/ 1 Blaster in Raider
5x Kabalite w/ 1 Blaster in Venom
5x Kabalite w/ 1 Blaster in Venom

If you are starting at 600 points though, I would drop the 5 Kabalite from the Raider and put in 8 Incubi to make it a really scary close combat/counter charge unit that is capable of dealing with small hordes.

The key to taking down an escalation league though is knowing your local meta (what armies you expect to face), knowing the mission/objective you are going to play and building your list to take advantage of it.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Tue Sep 26 2017, 22:19

Afaik the meta as is consists of mostly guard players, with some marine from both sides of the coin.

Previous experiences have shown me, that I dont think DEs have much of a problem with marines and their saves.
So it mostly comes down to anti horde infantry and anti tank.

So I will probably be able to get a reaper till this leage, is it worth running in a 600p match or is it better to keep it.
From playing a few games at this local store thats holding it, I have a feeling these leages will consist of alot of heavy armor, which is why I kinda want to run the scourges.

But I have no experience with the reaper at all.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 09:47

The Reaper looks very good to me. I wish you could just buy the parts from Forgeworld rather than having to buy the Raider as well.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 10:09

I have been trying to build a list that can handle both AT and AI decently well for this leage, and to do that I Went with shooting from venoms with lots of SCs and embarked kabalites + scourges.

But is it more Point efficient to run incubi/"melee unit here", in a venom instead?
Maybe even more adaptable, seeing as poison shots doesnt seem fantastic vs hordes.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 10:47

I have taken all suggestions given here to heart, but seeing as Im trying to improve my listbuilding if someone would be so kind as to tell me if this is a terrible idea or not.

HQ
Warlock

TROOP
5x kab-warrior
5x kab-warrior w/grenade launcher

FAST ATTACK
5x scourges w/4x DL

HEAVY SUPPORT
Reaper

TRANSPORT
Venom w/ SC
Venom w/ SC

Doesnt really matter to me if the warlock himself is doing anything at all, seeing as the only reason I took him at all is his low Point cost so that I hit 600p exactly and can include other things instead.

Or is it not Worth running an essentially worthless HQ despite his low Point cost even though I´m quite underwhelmed by DEs HQ options.

Or is it better to run some sort of melee unit like incubi for killing hordes / tie up units.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 11:49

I am still not sure about having x4 DL on the Scourge. It just doesn't fit well for me. Mobile fast attack unit with heavy weapons so it's -1 to hit when you move...such a waste. Long range weapons on deep striking unit...again this is a waste.

They are only T3 so spending that amount of points on a squishy unit in a small points game is asking for trouble.

I think if you want to keep it simple I would go with an Archon, 2 Kab squads, 2 Raiders and a Heavy Support.

Archon - Agoniser, Blaster
5 Kabs - Blaster
10 Kabalites - Dark Lance
Ravager - x3 DL
Raider - DL, Shock Prow
Raider - DL, Shock Prow

600 points

For 600 points that's x6 DL, x2 Blasters and x30 poison in rapid fire range. All of your DL is protected by a Ravager/Raider as well.

Just some ideas. I am not saying your list is bad...I just look at your list and try and show another way of making it a little different to give you something else to look at.
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Voidpekarn
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PostSubject: Re: Escalation leage/tournament, 600 - 1200 (New player)   Wed Sep 27 2017, 12:05

Thats more or less exactly the kind of things Im looking for, just different ideas and viewpoints.

It may be that the archon is decent for his Point cost its just that in my 4ish practise games at 500p he´s failed the invul save the second time I had to use it, which kinda negatively impacts my view of him.

So that list that you made doesnt struggle vs hordes, or am I overestimating how good 2xvenoms with SC would be.
Also somewhat factoring in that the reaper itself wouldnt be terrible vs low SV infantry.

It just feels like with using the warlock you can get alot of the DE units you want to have, instead of having to take a "tax" HQ.
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