HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Seeking counsel

Go down 
AuthorMessage
DOGGED
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2017-09-01
Location : Manresa, Catalonia

PostSubject: Seeking counsel   Mon Sep 18 2017, 17:05

Greetings out there.

I'm just starting a Dark Eldar (nowadays Drukhari) army. I am not going to magnetise everything, and want to keep each unit pruposefully built to fulfill a given duty. That's why before I finish building squads and vehicles I'd like to have some counseling from experienced Archons in the Dark City.

My army is built around the (fluff) concept of an assault detachment from a Kabal with a strong Cult component.

The Kabalite troops would be divided into 3 Warrior squads transported by 3 Raiders and 3 Trueborn smaller squads transported by 3 Venoms.

Heavy support would be provided by 3 Ravagers and 3 Reapers.

Fast Attack troops would be Hellions and Reavers (the Cult of Speed Laughing )

Then there are the 3 Scourge squads.

These options I have very clear in my mind as they fit squarely with the overall concept of the army. But, even as I have a general idea on the specific equipment, I want to check it and try learning from other people's experiences. In the meantime and pending final construction:

Kabalite Warriors would be equipped with the mandatory Splinter Rifles, with Splinter Cannons as the "heavy" option, to keep movement and AP capability while keeping on the cheap side (main goal is Objective Keeping).

Kabalite Trueborn would be equipped with Blasters (2 squads) and Shredders/Splinter Cannons(1 squad) (goals are short range firepower-light AP/vehicle hunting).

Scourges would sport Dark Lances (2 squads) and Shredders/Splinter Cannons (1 squad) (goals are long range firepower-heavy AP/vehicle hunting).

Raiders will have Disintegrators (AP role supporting Kabalites) while Ravagers will be armed with 3 Dark Lances (AT role).

Hellions and Reavers would be standard (stock) ones.

Weaponry availability is limited by the quantities of each coming with the different sprues (5x10 Kabalites, 3x5 Scourges, so 8 of each "heavy" option IIRC).

That's it. Any opinion, please?

_________________
That which can kill you should be your first kill
Back to top Go down
Archon_91
Wych
avatar

Posts : 519
Join date : 2017-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Mon Sep 18 2017, 19:02

Well most would tell you don't bother with the shredder and all your scourge should be equipped with (4) dark lances, and your trueborn should be equipped with (4) blasters, and then to not even bother with reavers as they are overpriced And underwhelming in what they want to do. Then they would tell you that the splinter cannon in the kab squads would again be better as a darklance and a blaster.

However, I have always used a splinter Cannon in my cad squads and it's worked for me, I have not run scourge with dark lances but instead (4) splinter cannons, ravagers with (3) dark lances and raiders with dissie cannons, venom would have the splinter cannon upgrade, I usually run two units of Trueborn with (4) blasters and one with (4) shredders. I have used 2x10 squads of hellions before and they are great at tearing apart elite units in close combat but don't survive that long, and reavers ... Well a heat lance and cluster caltrops works great for character hunting but that's about it. I don't know what point limit you are going for but many would also suggest Razorwing jet fighter and a single Voidraven Bomber (standard seems to be 2 RWJF and 1 VR). However I would also say play it with your set up a couple times and see how you like it as it seems you have a very solid idea of what each unit is meant to do.
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Mon Sep 18 2017, 20:11

You should indeed not bother with Shredders on Scourges.
What i suggest is customizing your scourges weapons. Mine look like a mix of DL and HWB, so i can decide whichever i play at every game (and i think they look awesome and i'm an artist).

Having ambiguous conversions is the best way to remain flexible without magnetizing.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
avatar

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Mon Sep 18 2017, 20:19

@DOGGED wrote:
The Kabalite troops would be divided into 3 Warrior squads transported by 3 Raiders and 3 Trueborn smaller squads transported by 3 Venoms.

Heavy support would be provided by 3 Ravagers and 3 Reapers.

Fast Attack troops would be Hellions and Reavers (the Cult of Speed Laughing )

Then there are the 3 Scourge squads.
This sounds fine overall. Reavers are probably not optimized for their point cost, but everything else you're aiming at is very solid choice wise.

@DOGGED wrote:
Kabalite Warriors would be equipped with the mandatory Splinter Rifles, with Splinter Cannons as the "heavy" option, to keep movement and AP capability while keeping on the cheap side (main goal is Objective Keeping).
Movement and AP capability will also be served by a Blaster, just saying Wink
The S.Cannon tends to be pretty pricey for what you 'gain' from it. Still, if your goal is anti-infantry and you're taking 10 man squads it should do okay in boosting your damage output.

@DOGGED wrote:
Kabalite Trueborn would be equipped with Blasters (2 squads) and Shredders/Splinter Cannons(1 squad) (goals are short range firepower-light AP/vehicle hunting).
Shredders are pretty weaksauce, I would tend to advocate not going that route.

@DOGGED wrote:
Scourges would sport Dark Lances (2 squads) and Shredders/Splinter Cannons (1 squad) (goals are long range firepower-heavy AP/vehicle hunting).
Again, I can't really get behind Shredders, and on Scourges I would note that the issue with s.cannons (that GW has them priced too high pointswise) really becomes clear.
Take a squad of 5 Scourges, no upgrades - you get 15 poison shots at 18"
Now pay for the privilege to upgrade to 4x s.cannons - within 18" you gain 12 shots, awesome, right?
Now, look at how much that costs you.
Now look at how many Scourges that would buy you and their cost and also how they will increase the durability of the unit.
Now ask if s.cannons are really worth it. I suggest not.

I also submit that Blasters are good on Scourges too.

@DOGGED wrote:
Raiders will have Disintegrators (AP role supporting Kabalites) while Ravagers will be armed with 3 Dark Lances (AT role).
I personally tend to take a Dissie Ravager and put lances on the Raiders, but it's really the same amount of points, it's just a question of what you want to make harder to kill easily.

@DOGGED wrote:
Hellions and Reavers would be standard (stock) ones.
Hellions will do fine stock.
Recognize that the Reavers, stock, tend to be at best harassment units who can move to the rear and tie up vehicles to prevent their shooting for a round or so.

If you feel your weaponry is restricted by the boxes, I will also note that you can find some good tutorials on making Shredders into Blasters by using Blast Pistol bits in our Modeling forum.

_________________


The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
DOGGED
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2017-09-01
Location : Manresa, Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Tue Sep 19 2017, 17:58

@Thor665 wrote:

...Movement and AP capability will also be served by a Blaster, just saying Wink
The S.Cannon tends to be pretty pricey for what you 'gain' from it. Still, if your goal is anti-infantry and you're taking 10 man squads it should do okay in boosting your damage output...
Shredders are pretty weaksauce, I would tend to advocate not going that route.

(dots and bold are mine to skip or highlight text)

First, a note: when I wrote AP I meant AntiPersonnel (so anti infantry)
And a question: Aren't Shredders good light AP assault weapons? Paper would tell a 5 man Trueborn squad (4 Shredders) would deal like some 5-6 S6 0 hits repeating failed wounds; oh I see, 4 Blasters are like 3 S8 -4 hits. Armour rolls and that. Point taken. Trueborn should hit heavy armour, multiwound small infantry squads and leave mobs for the Warriors.

@Thor665 wrote:

...I also submit that Blasters are good on Scourges too...If you feel your weaponry is restricted by the boxes, I will also note that you can find some good tutorials on making Shredders into Blasters by using Blast Pistol bits in our Modeling forum.

@Mppqlmd wrote:

You should indeed not bother with Shredders on Scourges.
What i suggest is customizing your scourges weapons ...

I guess Thor665 means something in the way of what is said here; and somehow agreeing to Mppqlmd I quite like the idea; also I could make some conversions with Dark Lances from the Raiders and Reapers so I would get:

- more Blasters to kit the 3rd Trueborn squad.

- more Dark Lances to kit the 3rd Scourge squad.

@Archon_91 wrote:

...
reavers ... Well a heat lance and cluster caltrops works great for character hunting but that's about it
...
@Thor665 wrote:

... Reavers, stock, tend to be at best harassment units ...

I should have noted that I'm intent on having each 1 in 3 Reavers equipped with a Blaster; certainly a Heat Lance would be more menacing to characters.
But can't Reavers be mid-game good HtH chargers? Drug & Power of Pain makes them 3 2+ S4 -1 attacks each from Turn 3, so they could clean troops from Objectives...

_________________
That which can kill you should be your first kill
Back to top Go down
Burnage
Wych
avatar

Posts : 711
Join date : 2017-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Tue Sep 19 2017, 18:07

I've had trouble keeping Reavers alive until the mid-game. Bikers make big, juicy targets for enemies who aren't focusing on your vehicles.

I'd recommend leaving them at home unless they get a buff.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
avatar

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Tue Sep 19 2017, 20:16

I would agree that bikes make good mid-game assault options.
But my follow up thoughts are this;

1. What are they doing until then?
2. Aren't there other units that could also do good mid-game assaults while being useful more in the early game?

I find, for myself, that Wyches, Incubi, Hellions, heck, even Mandrakes, tend to be able to do the sorts of things Reavers can do, but also do other stuff as well, and generally do it all better and/or cheaper.

I will agree, as sort of an odd hybrid between Scourges and Wyches, wherein they do big target hunting with heat lances/blasters early and then some assaults late they do fill a somewhat unique role - but I feel you pay far too much for the benefit, and they're not exactly brilliant enough at either to justify that cost.

They're not bad though, they're just a bit too pricey - in casual games or in local tournaments I think they'll do you fine and be super fun to play, I know I've been enjoying them myself, but on a pure competitive scope they are currently lacking.

_________________


The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
DOGGED
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2017-09-01
Location : Manresa, Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Tue Sep 19 2017, 22:16

@Thor665 wrote:

...They're not bad though, they're just a bit too pricey - in casual games or in local tournaments I think they'll do you fine and be super fun to play, I know I've been enjoying them myself, but on a pure competitive scope they are currently lacking.

Yesss Understood. Keep them for friendly/narrative gaming with high point threshold!

Hellions, got them in some numbers so looks like I'm covered in that part...

Again, thanks for the hint on converting Blasters. Much appreciated!

_________________
That which can kill you should be your first kill
Back to top Go down
lcfr
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 453
Join date : 2013-10-20
Location : Toronto

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Wed Sep 20 2017, 01:39

I would say the Reavers would do well in squads of 3 with a Heat Lance and the item that causes a Mortal Wound on the charge.

It's 120 (maybe 20pts higher than it should be sadly) to just Turbo Boost up the board to the enemy's backline and tie down a vehicle and maybe chip off a few wounds as a bonus.

They're our fastest unit that can interact with an enemy vehicle as their main role and save us having to bring a Venom/Raider and its passengers out of position.

Not crazy good but it might be interesting to try.
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   Wed Sep 20 2017, 09:09

1 Heat Lance is going to achieve nothing. You'd regret spending those 120pts after realizing your "tank hunter squad" has dealt 2 mortal wounds and not a single melta wound (because you know... wounding on 5's) in the game before dying.
120pts is also a blaster scourges squad for Vect's sake.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Seeking counsel   

Back to top Go down
 
Seeking counsel
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: