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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Flier Missiles   Sat Sep 16 2017, 01:15

Our fliers are arguably among the best in the game, with shadowfields for survivability, Lance/Disintegrator weaponry, and missiles.

However, our missile options could probably use re-examining. I mean, as good as they are they have always been anti-infantry weapons first and foremost.

While anti-infantry is a great thing to have, given the sheer variety of missiles we have access to (among the highest variety of such weapons of any army in the game), it would seem that having them all do the same thing in slightly different ways is a bit wasteful.

So I am suggesting that we add new ones. Specifically, one Air to Air variant missile (A Krak Missile equivelent that gets +1 to hit fliers but -1 to hit non-fliers) and an AT missile. Maybe something really potent (Krak that has roll twice take highest damage vs vehicles and structures, for instance), since our missiles are kinda bigger than your average missile launcher rocket.

Would not require a new kit, just some extra entries in the Razorwing Missiles and Voidraven Missiles. What do you guys think?

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Flier Missiles   Sat Sep 16 2017, 10:32

Honestly S7 rerolled with AP-1 is fine for AT for me. As well as great AI. Actually, it's so good it's the only option worth taking.

I liked the pre-FAQ were Necrotoxin has 6 hits, since there was a reason to take it over Shatterfield for AI. Now Shatterfield is the only valid choice in 80% of the cases (Monoscythes can be a good gamble if you fire at 2W targets).

To make the choice more interesting, you'd have to give ap-1 to Monoscythes, and a little extra to Necrotoxin (more shots, a small debuffs, some AP, anything).
Or we can stick to using only one, since he's just so versatile.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Flier Missiles   Sat Sep 16 2017, 11:17

Mppqlmd wrote:
Honestly S7 rerolled with AP-1 is fine for AT for me. As well as great AI. Actually, it's so good it's the only option worth taking.

I liked the pre-FAQ were Necrotoxin has 6 hits, since there was a reason to take it over Shatterfield for AI. Now Shatterfield is the only valid choice in 80% of the cases (Monoscythes can be a good gamble if you fire at 2W targets).

To make the choice more interesting, you'd have to give ap-1 to Monoscythes, and a little extra to Necrotoxin (more shots, a small debuffs, some AP, anything).
Or we can stick to using only one, since he's just so versatile.

Yeah, the Shattershard these days is pretty king. Honestly, I would love to see someone run the numbers on Shattershard vs Implosion missile, but I suspect that Shattershard would win that one too. And I also miss the automatic 6 shots of necrotoxin.

The problem is that once again we have one option that is flat out better than all others in the VAST majority of cases (I think that Necrotoxin missiles might be a valid choice against biotitans, and I could see using Monoscythe against a nob squad or 'nid warriors or a DE HQ that got caught on their own), which seems to be a common flaw in our army: We have a couple of options that are just so much better than all the alternatives that we just spam them rather than using variety.

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Flier Missiles   Sat Sep 16 2017, 18:17

I have some math on the effectiveness on all of our missiles.

In no particular order,

Monoscythe:
GEQ: 1.30
MEQ: 0.52
PEQ: 0.52
TEQ: 0.26
Rhino: 0.05
Russ: 0.04
Land Raider: 0.02

Necrotoxin:
GEQ: 1.30
MEQ: 0.65
PEQ: 0.32
TEQ: 0.16
Rhino: 0.01
Russ: 0.01
Land Raider: 0.00

Well, in fairness, against the Raider it isn't zero, but it's small enough to be negligible.

Shatterfield:
GEQ: 1.62
MEQ: 0.78
PEQ: 0.39
TEQ: 0.26
Rhino: 0.06
Russ: 0.03
Land Raider: 0.02

Implosion:
GEQ: 1.11
MEQ: 0.74
PEQ: 0.37
TEQ: 0.30
Rhino: 0.04
Russ: 0.03
Land Raider: 0.02

To be frank, I'm far too tired to analyze and weigh in on these, personally, so I'll just leave the data here for you all to peruse.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Flier Missiles   Sat Sep 16 2017, 19:43

Looks like Shatterfield/Monoscythe ftw.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Flier Missiles   Sat Sep 16 2017, 23:45

I think Implosion missiles need to deal d3 damage.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Flier Missiles   Sun Sep 17 2017, 05:09

Or just a flat 2-3 damage
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