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psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

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PostSubject: 2k Yacht Club   2k Yacht Club I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 13 2017, 23:48

Theoretical list from before I quit the first time. (mid 6th) The idea is high mobility with potent firepower from a list I worked on from my past.

Please give me your critiques, don't be afraid of counter points or the reasons I chose what I did. My endgame is for us Dark Eldar (didn't studder on that) to get better as a whole. (myself included)

The Wyches are for deterrence for the boats, I'd even sacrifice the HQ if needed. I'm so far concerned with managing hordes, but with taking a gander at the forums, seems like it's not just me. I'm weighing putting blast pistols back in the Wyches and Archon for that extra punch in the teeth.

I prefer Blast Pistols over Blasters. (FYI) It's the loss of shooting phase if they tarpit.

Currently there is 5 Venoms instead of 6 because I at the moment value that ~6" of extra charge range from things that start on the board. That can change from your opinions and play testing, I'm here to learn.



Spearhead Detach +1

Archon
- Agonizer, PGL

2x 5 wyches

4x Ravager
- 3x DL
- Shock Prow

2x Ravager
- 3x Dizzies
- Shock Prow

3x Raider
- Dizzies
- Shock Prow

5x Venom (I greatly dislike these now.)
- Double SCannon

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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Yacht Club   2k Yacht Club I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 14 2017, 02:08

@psycheer wrote:
Archon
- Agonizer, PGL
Don't see a lot of value to the PGL in general TAC, but this is a decent cheap option for Wych support.

@psycheer wrote:
2x 5 wyches
I hope your intent is simply as momentary tarpits, because that's all they'll manage if lucky without risking a boat anyway, and their only goal appears to be boat protection.

@psycheer wrote:
4x Ravager
- 3x DL
- Shock Prow

2x Ravager
- 3x Dizzies
- Shock Prow
Can't go wrong with Ravagers.

@psycheer wrote:
3x Raider
- Dizzies
- Shock Prow
I somewhat question these, but it's not a bad loadout.

@psycheer wrote:
5x Venom (I greatly dislike these now.)
- Double SCannon
I would submit that the TL S.rifle is basically just as good, and substantially cheaper than the additional s.cannon. That could be a lot of saved points very easily.

Looking at it as a whole, I think where you start to lose me is some of your support killing force. At a certain point Raiders and Venoms are not enough kill benefit for their cost.

Just as a quick example - 1 Venom (with extra s.cannon) is rocking you 12 shots within 18" for 95 points.
6 Scourges with shardcarbines get you 18 shots at 18" for 84 points and can be put in deepstrike reserve.
Each has some arguments for their relative pros and cons, but I don't see the Venom as the clear value winner there, so...why spam it?

Let's also talk the Raider, with a dark lance you're talking 115.
A Ravager with 3 lances is 155 for 3x the shots - making it a better value to get firepower on the field. So, if your goal is a shooting vehicle, why not start sacking command points for Auxillary Heavy slots to take more Ravagers?
Or, quite frankly, consider the Razorwing Jetfighter - priced at a similar point to the Ravager you lose a lance (or Dissie) but gain the missiles and a TL s.rifle which are very good. The Razorwing is also very useful against blobs not only due to their ability to give them a bloody nose better than Ravagers, but also in their ability to create a big footprint that can serve as a roadblock for advancing blobs, something a Venom or a Raider, or even a Ravager, can't do half as well.

I find the core idea amusing, but that's what I'd think about when it came to maximizing it.

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psycheer
Kabalite Warrior
psycheer

Posts : 193
Join date : 2012-10-08
Location : Texas

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Yacht Club   2k Yacht Club I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 15 2017, 00:17

@Thor665 wrote:
@psycheer wrote:
Archon
- Agonizer, PGL
Don't see a lot of value to the PGL in general TAC, but this is a decent cheap option for Wych support.

To be honest, it was a throwaway 3pts, the last bit of the 6th venom(*gags*) when I cashed it in for splinter cannons on the other venoms.

@psycheer wrote:
2x 5 wyches
I hope your intent is simply as momentary tarpits, because that's all they'll manage if lucky without risking a boat anyway, and their only goal appears to be boat protection.

Tiny speed bumps, possibly teleportation mitigation... That's all.

@psycheer wrote:
4x Ravager
- 3x DL
- Shock Prow

2x Ravager
- 3x Dizzies
- Shock Prow
Can't go wrong with Ravagers.

They're a staple, have yet to test the dizzy ravagers.

@psycheer wrote:
3x Raider
- Dizzies
- Shock Prow
I somewhat question these, but it's not a bad loadout.

I find them strangely reliable, most players ignore them until I start peeling things like terminators, marines, and open characters apart with them. So far been successful running this build in the 500pts and 1000pts levels.

@psycheer wrote:
5x Venom (I greatly dislike these now.)
- Double SCannon
I would submit that the TL S.rifle is basically just as good, and substantially cheaper than the additional s.cannon. That could be a lot of saved points very easily.

I actually suspected as much, I've got them in there currently to test if 15pts (per venom) is worth the 6" I want. The goal being to net some failed charges to them.

Looking at it as a whole, I think where you start to lose me is some of your support killing force. At a certain point Raiders and Venoms are not enough kill benefit for their cost.

Just as a quick example - 1 Venom (with extra s.cannon) is rocking you 12 shots within 18" for 95 points.
6 Scourges with shardcarbines get you 18 shots at 18" for 84 points and can be put in deepstrike reserve.
Each has some arguments for their relative pros and cons, but I don't see the Venom as the clear value winner there, so...why spam it?

Let's also talk the Raider, with a dark lance you're talking 115.
A Ravager with 3 lances is 155 for 3x the shots - making it a better value to get firepower on the field. So, if your goal is a shooting vehicle, why not start sacking command points for Auxillary Heavy slots to take more Ravagers?
Or, quite frankly, consider the Razorwing Jetfighter - priced at a similar point to the Ravager you lose a lance (or Dissie) but gain the missiles and a TL s.rifle which are very good. The Razorwing is also very useful against blobs not only due to their ability to give them a bloody nose better than Ravagers, but also in their ability to create a big footprint that can serve as a roadblock for advancing blobs, something a Venom or a Raider, or even a Ravager, can't do half as well.

I find the core idea amusing, but that's what I'd think about when it came to maximizing it.

The core idea is more or less why the bulk of the list is what it is.

To be perfectly honest, my mouth waters at the idea of running scourges in either role they can fulfill. I have not yet considered them for this list, my main list, because of their cons vs a venom. T3, 5 wounds, 12"-16" movement, and having to take moral if they're sneezed at or incorrectly used/placed. They still deserve to be given my 5 game minimum play-testing when I get a squad or two, despite them not being boats/yachts.

I made the choice for the points sink that is raiders... I'm gonna have to think a whole lot more on this one... Initially it was for mind games, misdirection opportunities, and spreading out the dizzies so that they're more difficult to take out. I use them to murder/gimp power/terminator armored targets so i don't have to sacrifice lances or trudge through using a ton of venom shots.

I have considered the jet as my utility/swiss army knife, have not had an opportunity yet to get it a shot yet as I'm rebuilding my entire army from scratch.  

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Lyceus
Hellion
Lyceus

Posts : 93
Join date : 2017-07-10

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Yacht Club   2k Yacht Club I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 16 2017, 18:32

You could also add another HQ and split the army into 2 spearhead detachment and "convert" some raiders to reapers.

I am personally going to try out a list like that:


1st Spearhead

HQ Farseer/ possibly skyrunner

Heavy support: 3x Ravagers with dissies


2nd Spearhead:

HQ Warlock (37 points for another command point. IDK if its worth it. Probably if you face a psycher heavy list you can deny one more time)

Heavy support: 3x Reapers


Air Wing detachment

2 RWJ Dissies or DL (doesnt matter at this point), 1 VRB dark scythes



This leaves you with about 150 points. I like to add 4x3 Razorwing flocks to screen my boats from all directions from deepstrikes turn 1 and to go with my flyers to be the closest enemy model when it comes to the opponent psychic phase. 12 wounds per unit can soak up a lot of smites Very Happy
They will 50% fail morale but at that point they have done their job and protected my boats. I think after 2 phases of shooting with this army the game is over anyway and the flocks are not needed anymore.

I have played almost the same list with DL ravagers but failed to clean up the board fast enough to actually win after taking down the "biggest tanks" first turn. So looking forward with Dissie Cannons now. I think it will make a huge difference.

What do you guys think?
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