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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Tue Sep 12 2017, 22:12

@Mppqlmd wrote:
- Kabal of the Severed : "Realspace exiles" : every single unit of your army has to be fielded in a vehicle. No beasts, no mandrakes, no scourges allowed (unless in a tantalus). Your entire army gains deep strike.

- Kabal of the Flayed Skull : "Lords of Speed" : your reavers, VRB and RWJF can deal 1d3 mortal wounds when they advance over an enemy unit.

- Kabal of the Black Heart : "Unchallenged authority" : if an Archon (or Vect) is your warlord, he counts as being a Succubus, an Archon, and an Haemonculus when it comes down to auras. Your opponent scores twice the victory points for killing him.

- Kabal of the Broken Sigil : "Bringers of discord" : When one of your units uses all its weapons against the same enemy unit, that unit suffers -1 LD until the end of the current turn. That modifier can be stacked 4 times. The Broken Sigil cannot benefit from Auras.

- Kabal of the Blackened Tear : "Masters of poison" : your kabalites gain poisoned cc weapons.

- Kabal of the Baleful Glaze : "Sabotaged" : Your Kabalite trueborns can have 1 Haywire blaster per 5 models. Your trueborns can have up to 4 haywire blasters. Any vehicle damaged by your haywire blasters has a -1 modifier to hit on ranged attacks until the beginning of your next turn, stackable as much as you want (a 6 is always a hit). Note : this rule should be in the standard version of the HB.

- Kabal of the Slashed Eye : "Assassins" : At the beginning of the game, select any enemy character. Roll 5d6. For every roll of 3+, he suffers a mortal wound.
You may not field Hellions or Beasts in this Kabal.

- Kabal of the Last Hatred : "Masters of torture" : you start the game at the second step of the Power from Patience chart.



- Cult of the Impaled : Your incubi gain the "Cult" keyword.

- Cult of the Cursed Blade : Special Stratagem : 1 CP, target Cult unit gains the poisoned special rule until the end of the turn.

- Cult of the Red Grief : "Battle acrobats" : Any Wyches unit you have that starts its movement phase entirely within 3" of a Reavers/Hellions squad can "share a ride" with it. Move the Hellions/Reavers squad, then redeploy your Wyches squad entirely within 3" of it. Both units cannot move any further this turn, although they still can assault if the Reavers/Hellions didn't advance.
This would allow a foot-slogging wych unit to move 34" in a single turn if embarked in an Advancing Reavers squads with +2mvt drugs.

- Cult of Strife : "Mistress of Slaugther" when you roll a 6 to hit in CC with one of your Cult model, it gains an additionnal attack.

- Cult of the Seventh Woe "Expanded Bestiary" : you may field Genestealers and Carnifexes in your beast packs. They are affected by your beastmasters auras.




- Prophets of flesh : "Haruspices" : Your Haemonculi become lvl 1 psychers.

- The Hex : your coven units gain a -1 LD debuff (12" range) that stacks 4 times.

- The Altered : your Ichor Injector deal mortal wounds on 4+. "Corpsethief claw" : if you score first blood with one Coven unit, you gain double VP.

- The Everspiral/Ebon sting : your Engines regain 1 HP per turn.

- The Dark Creed : Mandrakes become Coven units. For 35pts, your Haemy can become a Mandrake, and gains "Shrouded from sight", "From out of the shadows" and a baleblast.

- The Children of bone : your grotesques gain Rampage (+1d3 attacks when outnumbered).


I'm not saying my propositions are balanced, or even good. But the fluff is rich, and i think it could easily be done to establish rules for 4-6 special of each Coven, Kabals and Cults.

A lot of good ideas here. Twisted Evil
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Tue Sep 12 2017, 23:07

Although if the Prophets of Flesh haemunculous become lvl 1 psychers ... Would they only get smite or would DE have it's own psychic table and the ability to buy a piece of wargear that is basically a prophetic enhancement that gives them an additional psychers level ... And what would DE psychic powers look like?
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Tue Sep 12 2017, 23:12

I think Dark Eldar psykers would look like a pile of corpses, since everyone else would kill them almost immediately
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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 01:00

I'm going to be the optimist and offer that it is possible that when the Dark Eldar book comes out, it will have nothing for Covens, as they are going to get their own book again, and that in the True Kin book their will be 6 Kabals and 3-4 Wych Cults. Essentially, I think it will be the Kabals and Cults seen in the 7th edition codex, and based off of the fluff from that book.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 07:01

@Mikoneo wrote:
I think Dark Eldar psykers would look like a pile of corpses, since everyone else would kill them almost immediately

At least we're not Tyrannids and our HQs don't have 10 HP, so they should live on for a while.

Quote :
And what would DE psychic powers look like?
That's a very good question. The Prophets of Flesh are supposed to mingle with Futureseeing, so a simple solution would be to make them lvl 1-2 farseers. But if GW decides to go in the direction of giving us access to Psychic powers (which i doubt), they could very well design specific psychic powers.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 08:14

Whether it be from psychic powers or new weapons, it would be cool if we have the ability to apply negative modifiers to enemy units through causing severe pain or fear...a bit like the PGL applies a -1 LD.

You could have nerve gas weapons that causes severe pain that slows down units movement...I think it would be really cool being able to slow down a unit that is trying to reach an objective.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 08:57

I really like that idea actually.

It would also mean we don't need much speed increases while still feeling like the fastest army since we can make our opponent slower.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 09:48

While I have said a lot about having better force multipliers (since we don't get psychic powers, and our auras are only affecting a portion of our army, I say they should be damn powerful to compensate.), I would be equally happy to have a lot of debuff options which does feel VERY Dark Eldar.

Maybe have, like, 3 poison types. One that gives penalties to enemy move (-1" per unsaved wound inflicted on target unit, minimum 1" move, lasts until start of next DE turn), One that gives penalties to leadership (-1 leadership per unsaved wound inflicted to target unit, lasts until end of current turn, REALLY GOOD VS HORDES), and one that gives penalties to strength and toughness (multi-wound non-vehicles receive -1 strength and toughness per unsaved wound that model takes from splinter weapons, minimum 1 of each.)
All splinter weapons get the effect, chosen at the start of the game, affecting the entire army.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 10:10

I would also like to see some "Scarecrow"-like weapon : "Paranoïc toxin" : -1 ld debuff. If the unit affected suffers one or more casualty from moral, in addition to removing those models, undergo a full shooting round (with every weapon) from every model that was supposed to flee. The DE player choses the target.

That way you could plague Firedragons with your poison shots, and make them blow up their own tanks. Would definitly feel DE to me, and would be a ton of fun.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 10:20

I like that! Bit like the old Puppet Master psychic power.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 10:58

An alternative version would have the enemy hit by a full set of melee attacks by any model that flees. That could be really nasty against some units!

Could also have a Phantasm Grenade Launcher equivelent that has D3 shots. Any model hit shoots/melees their own unit, rather than conventional damage rolls.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 11:19

Sure, it could also work. I think it's easier to state that a confused/paranoid model would shoot at (possibly friendly) nearby units than go full berzerk and kill his friends, but why not.

However, i think such gimmicks have to be checked by moral before they activate. It's not really fair to affect equally a space marine and a conscript. It's really immersion-killing to play a Necron army and be affected by such rules despite the fact that you have the best moral in the game.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 11:38

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Sure, it could also work. I think it's easier to state that a confused/paranoid model would shoot at (possibly friendly) nearby units than go full berzerk and kill his friends, but why not.

However, i think such gimmicks have to be checked by moral before they activate. It's not really fair to affect equally a space marine and a conscript. It's really immersion-killing to play a Necron army and be affected by such rules despite the fact that you have the best moral in the game.
Yeah, I'm down with that. Maybe give them a "strength" value and roll to wound vs leadership instead of toughness? Any wounds trigger the paranoia/frenzy effect?

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 12:24

The suggestion i made (any model dying from moral is affected) has one advantage : you can capitalize on it => once you shot your paranoic drug or whatever, you have to focus the hell out of that unit with your other weapons/ld debuffs. If you manage to do so, you might, instead of a handful, make the entire squad go crazy.
So it brings more tactical depth, because it brings you goals that you have to actively pursue, but have greater possible rewards.

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 13 2017, 14:20

@Tounguekutter wrote:
I'm going to be the optimist and offer that it is possible that when the Dark Eldar book comes out, it will have nothing for Covens, as they are going to get their own book again, and that in the True Kin book their will be 6 Kabals and 3-4 Wych Cults.  Essentially, I think it will be the Kabals and Cults seen in the 7th edition codex, and based off of the fluff from that book.
Never going to happen, supplements were a regular thing throughout 6th and 7th edition. Crimson Slaughter and Craftworld Iyanden aren't getting their own codexes so there's no reason to expect the Covens to get them as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 09:52

Wych Cult Ability idea: Glamour.
The Wyches of this cult combine their unnatural beauty with pheromone laden sweat to make their foes hesitate, giving them the opening to score the kill. Attacks against Cult units with this rule made in the fight phase are at -1 to hit, and cult units with this rule strike at the start of the fight phase (after chargers) outside of the normal order of battle.

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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 12:49

I favor the One general and One specific for each approach, with a 3 warlord traits per faction that can be chosen from.

I'd love to see Wyche Cults get the rule that any enemy units that successfully fall back from them automatically get hit by another round of attacks from any unit with the Cult keyword.

Cult of Strife: This army may choose to automatically fail or pass the No Retreat roll. Any time an enemy is completely destroyed in the fight phase, or if they fall back from combat, these units may move again as if it were their movement phase.

Kabals I'd love to see getting a trait that any enemy unit within 6" of another unit from the same army that is fully destroyed, the unit takes a -1 to LD cumulative to -4. (Not sure I explained this very well - So if a unit of Two Devestators and a Captain are all near each other, killing one unit of Devs and the Captain would have the other unit of Devs testing on a -2 to LD. Hit em with PGL and its -3...)

Black Heart should be able to deny enemy strategiems on a 4+ while the warlord is still alive. As well, add +1 to the roll to go first (cumulative with the bonus to finishing deploying first if applicable), and allow all vehicles to take a certain upgrade for free - sail, prows, or torture amps etc.

Covens: They should be able to ignore wounds on a 5+. Being near a Hamey should make it a 4+. Give them all the rampage rule - +1d3 attacks per model when outnumbered.

Prophets of Flesh: May choose at the start of every turn to increase the toughness, strength or attacks of all units by 1. Enemy psychers withing 6" of a unit with this rule perils on any double roll.



Warlord Traits:
Kabal:
1 - Night Raid. May choose to start the first turn in the middle of the night. The range of all shooting attacks is reduced by 12"

2 - Master Strategist (Vect gets this). Any CP used, on a 4+, gets refunded.

3 - Slaver. Enemy characters killed by your warlord in the fight phase are worth d3 extra points

Cult:
1 - Menagerie. May include any unit from any other codex or index with the "Beast" keyword. Must take one beast master per such entry, which does not unlock the bonus normal beast unit that can be taken.

2 - Penetrating Strikes. All rolls of 6 to wound by the warlord do an additional mortal wound.

3 - Drug Crazed. The warlord and d3 units may take two drug options.

Coven:
1 - Masters of Flesh. The warlord gains 1 toughness, wound, and regens one wound per turn.

2 - Callous experiments. The warlord may 'augment' d3+2 units or wracks at the start of the battle. Every time the last model in the unit dies, it explodes dealing one mortal wound to everything within 3 inches. Alternatively, the warlord may 'push the button' at the start of movement phase to explode a single model from the unit.

3 - Bigger is better. The warlord may take direct control of any Talos or Cronos model within 3 inches of him. When he does so, he must stay within 3", and the favored creation may shoot twice and attack twice in the fight phase. The Warlord may not make any other actions other than moving to stay within 3" of his pet.

Just as a quick thought...
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Lord Nakariial
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:15

@Faitherun wrote:

1 - Menagerie. May include any unit from any other codex or index with the "Beast" keyword. Must take one beast master per such entry, which does not unlock the bonus normal beast unit that can be taken.

This rule alone would make me want a Cult army...oh the possibilities...

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:20

What other <BEAST> units are there?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:24

Scarabs? Thunderwolves? Kroot hounds? Not 100% sure, just guessing. I think a Beastmaster could TOTALLY wrangle some of those.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 15:29

Karanak, Flesh Hounds, Chaos Spawn, Beasts of Nurgle, Fiends of Slaanesh...

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Lord Nakariial
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 16:21

I just meant I could bring in some of my AoS beasties as counts as...don't necessarily know what they would actually represent Razz

And by AoS I mean sitting on my shelf gathering dust since End Times.... Crying or Very sad

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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 17:16

@Count Adhemar wrote:
What other <BEAST> units are there?

It would also mean any new units other Codex's get, we might too santa
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 21:17

The only problem I could see with that ( it's an amazing and fluffy idea, I love it) would be ... In order for us to use said beast we would have to buy that armies codex to have the rules for each of them ... And I'm not gonna buy a codex for an army I will never have just to have rules for a single unit in it ... However ... Tyranid are a different story ... As, I believe it is the cult of strife, has captured and bread many of them ... So having them as a beast option would be so much fun and a perfectly good reason for me to buy some tyranid models (or steal my brothers) and get the codex to use them with my beast masters
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Army themes   Wed Sep 27 2017, 21:22

If they go the AOS route, the data sheets with PL could be easily accessible or included in the box with the unit...
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