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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 09:02

Yup. As well he should be!

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 09:26

He basically is a large St. Celestine lol.

And there is no way that thing is 85pts with a ML and MM.. ML and MM together are 52pts.

Im guessing its 85pts then the 52pts, making it 137 before that other gun, IDk if that will have a cost or not.

Im not to worried about them, i'm thinking they will be priced more than normal CSM and they will have less units on the table.

Mortarion, 2 of those new vehicles and the Death Guard Termies will be like 800pts them selves.


Edit: Leak says Deathshroud guard guys are 75ptd a pop.

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Tue Sep 12 2017, 09:28; edited 1 time in total
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 09:27


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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 09:30

Well I gotta tell ya, that makes me happier if they are around 140 points Very Happy

Cheers guys
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 09:41

The Feotid Bloat Drone has a Fleshmower, which is a strength +2, -2AP, 2 Damage Plague Weapon. Every time a Plague Drone attacks with this weapon, it can make 6(!!) additional attacks with it.

Now look at the Talos' chain flails or macro scalpels and start weeping gently in the corner.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 11:51

@FuelDrop wrote:
Huh. The Deaath Guard Termies get a bodyguard rule that kicks in on 2+ and lets them take the hit, rather than our mortal wound version.

I think those hits are the way to go, because the termies are though and have a good save. They pay for those so they might as well use them and hopefully save the char from some nasty multiwound hits. I think it is actually a much better way then we have considering our bodyguard has a higher t then our characters. We suffer an mortal wound with a t5 dude for a t3 guy (if we still have our ward save it might be worth it to suffer the mortal wound though). I can only hope we get a similar ruling since I hate relying on a ward save that dissapears and can't be rerolled..
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Tue Sep 12 2017, 20:46

Hopefully this will change for us.

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 14:29

I don't see those Deathshroud being much help for Mortarion, I mean they move 4" per turn and being in Cataphractii armour means they half advance rolls, so they'll average 6" movement a turn. Mortarion goes 12". They'll get one turn when they drop in to protect him and then be left behind.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 14:43

How many turns do you think a Warptimed Mortarion needs to get into combat?

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 18:18

@Count Adhemar wrote:
How many turns do you think a Warptimed Mortarion needs to get into combat?

Im assuming it will be like Magnus, 16 > 14 >12, so he can move 32" with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 20:21

DG will be fine. They appear unique and powerful. Slow and really resilient isn't my play style (and I bet not the playstyle of most DE players) so I'm not too concerned about it. I've already encountered 140 Plague Bearers with malefic lord spam so this doesn't worry me much.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 20:52

Couple notes from the DG that I think people have missed so far:

The blight hauler is really 140-150 points.  They are BS4 and only get +1 to hit in a unit of 3.  

Everyone seems to be worried about them, the plague mortars, deathshroud and morty...

3x blight haulers ~450 points

2x plague mortar ~300 points

3x deathshroud ~225 points

Morty ~470 points.

thats about 1450 points right there with no HQ or Troops...

Sure they are tough, but thats 9 models for 1500 points...

The surgeon is reroll 1's to DR not +1 to DR.

Also warptime is not impossible to get with a DG detatchment.  None of the DG characters have access to the heretic discipline so if you want this you would have to take non DG detachment.  I am not sure the tax is worth pushing a DG unit forward.  I feel like DG work best as a slow and steady wave of death.  Push too many units out alone and you cant benefit from some of the stratagems and you give your opponents easy targets to focus.

I think DE are in a decent place against DG.  The most dangerous to us is the plague marines 18" rapid fire and morty.  We should be fast enough to avoid everything else and DG doesnt really have weight of dice.  They have a couple big expensive things and then rapid fire.

Because DG pays for their toughness (usually by giving up a bit of fire power)  they are over costed if you are not shooting them.

I think that disintegrator cannons got better with DG release.  Going to need them to kill the 2+ 5+++ rerolling 1's marines next to the haulers.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 21:59

Im not worried about them at all, the are the PSM of CSM, they are costly and low model count, something we are great at killing.

Heck even my SOB isnt scared of them.

What will be bad if they Soup and get those 30 (or is it 40?) Cultist that comes back with 2 CP's and can DS them, along with a couple other units.

Taking 750-1k DG and soup the rest might be scary

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 22:58

I suspect we will mainly see small deathguard contingents deploying in support of chaos warbands, rather than full deathguard armies. Not that full death guard armies do not work, of course, but the flexibility offered by bringing them as a secondary detachment to a well rounded chaos force will appeal to many.

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 23:26

I disagree.

I think DG will work best as DG + Daemons of nurgle, or pure DG.

The big thing is synergy.  If people are going to take any DG its going to be morty and maybe some of the tanks.  That right there is almost 1k points.  This wont really synergize with much.

Basically tough vehicles and killy high wound characters, are not something chaos is worried about.  They already have access to tons yet you still see the same stuff.  

Chaos soup's big thing is screens and cheap characters.  Both of which I think are going to be changed in chapter approved so maybe after the changes DG stuff might look more appetizing.

Its a tough call till the models are all released and we can test this stuff out.  I could totally be wrong, I just dont see the point to "some" DG unless you are going for nurgle synergy which is not something chaos soup does.

1k points is literally like 4-5 death guard models. leaving like 300-500 points of soup after the troops and HQ.  Anything outside of heavy support/Lord of war chaos already does cheaper and better.  Its not until we buff the hell out of plague marines that they become good.

And dont discount DG stratagems.  You are going to want those CP!

Like I said though, I could totally be wrong.  I think I might be misinterpreting what you guys mean by chaos soup.

Chaos soup to me is the top chaos lists where they take screens and cheap psykers.  Is this what you guys mean?  Other than that, the only exclusive DG units are the new tanks and morty so I assume you guys mean taking that?  If so, which half of the competitive lists would you guys drop to make room?

For those that havent caught the leaks...

Haulers : ~150 points

Crawlers: ~159 points

The elite characters are all 60-110 points.

Morty : 470 points.

Plague marines kitted out are like 200ish points for 7, but I think chaos does marine troops better elsewhere.  Its not till the buffs from the characters that DG marines really shine.  I am pretty sure you can still take plague marines in a chaos army though.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 23:36

If you need screens, that stupid stratagem Cultist is one of the best Chaso Screens, 30 (40?) cultist that can come back and DS......

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Wed Sep 13 2017, 23:46

Thats what I mean though.  Take any one part of DG an you can get it better via the chaos codex.

Like take pox for example.  Not great.  Take typhus and now they are better, take a surgeon and now they are good.

I feel like the good stuff from DG is costed at pure DG points.  You are basically paying for the synergy you wont be taking.  

What is confusing me is people saying dg + chaos.  

DG troops:  not as good as chaos.

DG elites: DG only synergy.

DG fast attack: Over priced and favors synergy (plague weapons)

DG heavy support: Badass

DG LoW: Badass.

So I assume that people saying they take some DG will be taking heavy supports + morty which I pointed out earlier is about 1k points for 4 models and takes up a detatchment (does morty take his own?  I forget if LoW require their own detatchment).

If the LoW does take its own detachment then you are looking at 1 more detachment in comp which basically forces you into a battalion unless you want 5 CP. That means that 25% of your remaining points are HQ's and then you only have 6 or 7 models and 750 points left...

Not saying I am 100% right, this is just my impression so far.  If you dont mind being more specific as to what parts of DG and chaos someone would mix, maybe ill be able to see the merit.

I dont know much about chaos outside of the comp lists, which to me dont seem like they would benefit from including DG.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Thu Sep 14 2017, 00:16

But we havent seen everything yet either, they might work better than what see think they will.

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Thu Sep 14 2017, 00:54

@amishprn86 wrote:
But we havent seen everything yet either, they might work better than what see think they will.

About 3-4 codex reviews and pausing in 1080p and you have all the data sheets.

Basically we have like 6 HQ's, can take daemons for troops/FA, 5 or 6 elite buffing characters, the hauler, the crawler, and morty.  Everything else is minor changes like wounds or slight points decrease.

I think the only page I am missing is the surgeon page with the buff characters.  everyone uses the painting example picture when they talk about them lol. I got most of the points and special abilities  from review blogs though.

Been checking like 4 different sites a day for leaks haha.

There something specific you are interested in?  I can check if I can find the data sheet for ya.

Sometimes the reviewer will hold back the data sheet for something (I think GW said "dont show all the info in your review, we want to sell codex's lmao), then they go over a data sheet on the opposite page and end up showing the other datasheet in the process.

We're war gamers, not spys! We cant just keep secrets! lol
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Thu Sep 14 2017, 01:19

I didnt know artifacts and some of the other stuff was out now.

So all the units are out too then?

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Thu Sep 14 2017, 01:54

Pretty much. Not in one location unfortunately, but enough reviews and you can get them. The relics suck though. Best one is the supporating plate (2+ armor, on a CC save 4+ returns a mortal wound) andd then this helm thing which gives +3" to aura abilities. The rest of the relics are crap.

All the strats are out, all the psy powers are out, all the units are kind of out. GW has been sending codex's to the big youtube channels a week early so all the reviews are already out. Just gotta hope for 1080p and a second or two of focus so you can pause lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Thu Sep 14 2017, 23:28

Welcome to the age of daemon nurgle armies + morty and tanks.

The Plague Burst mortar : Daemon.

The bloat drones: Daemon (I think)

The blight hauler : Daemon

Morty : Daemon

Prince : Daemon.

Which means they all contribute and benefit from Epidemius.  I cant believe I didnt think about this sooner. Daemon armies just got a whole lot of shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Fri Sep 15 2017, 00:12

Nurgle is the one true god.

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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Fri Sep 15 2017, 02:46

Im also excited because I always wanted to do a campaign where I take my ynnari and try and rescue Isha the eldar god of life from grampa nurgle. I already have an allarielle which I think would be the perfect model for her.

Hell for all I know this is Gdubs plan too haha.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Guard Codex   Fri Sep 15 2017, 06:18

I have a large Khorne army Sad like 5k points, its the only chaos i play, they get a lot of small attention, but nothing major like this. Where is my god?

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