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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 15:18

So it seems that 8th edition has tried to make melee a more enticing option and considering that Dark Eldar (or drukhari) have a fair deal of close combat units this seems good. But how do the units actually perfrom? I've heard that wyches are improved, but the invulnerable only being active in the fight phase seems dangerous, as pistols can be fired even when within 1" of an enemy unit, and it seems that all imperium infantry has a pistol, all I imagine happening is that the wyches just got shot in the head before the fight phase begins (this issue is not exclusive to wyches, just an example)
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Lord Johan
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 15:23

Incubi are very good, especially the Klaivex. I can only recommend that you try them, having a lot of attacks at S4 ap -3 makes them very versatile and they are good vs many common targets. Demiklaives are only good if you know you are facing T3 Sv5+ or worse, otherwise skip.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 15:29

- Wyches are not that great, with their eternal problem : S3.
- Hellions are not that great, because T3 5+ for that price is just not enough.
- Clawed Fiends and Khymeras are really good. For the price, their offensive output is great.
- Incubi are awesome sauce.
- Wracks are fine, since they are cheap, resilient (especially with T5) and can dish some good damage.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 15:44

How about Sslyth?
I think they are the only Drukhari unit that has a gun and a pistol like Space Marines.

Only cc i played yet was 5 Grotesques, and subjectively to me they seem to lack a lot of damage, they survive alright, but don't turn everything to red mist like in 7th because of Poison nerf and rampage being gone.

Maybe i just need more of 'em?

I also miss latest experiments random buff.

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Lord Johan
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 15:50

I will admit to not having tried out the Sslyth, but since 2 snake dudes cost as much as a unit of incubi with a Klaivex (and they even cost more in PL for some reason) it seems like they would have to be pretty incredible to make the cut as your CC of choice. Which is a shame because they are cool
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 15:53

@Lord Johan wrote:
I will admit to not having tried out the Sslyth, but since 2 snake dudes cost as much as a unit of incubi with a Klaivex (and they even cost more in PL for some reason) it seems like they would have to be pretty incredible to make the cut as your CC of choice. Which is a shame because they are cool

I think their main purpose is protecting the Archon. Now if only the Archon was worth protecting...

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 16:01

Im here to 2nd, Incubi, Beasts, Wracks and Haemonculus are fine but Incubi and Beasts are better.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 16:01

I will have to agree that incubi are good. I got some and finally had the time to try them out and they more then earned there points back. Chaos SM droped a gun line behind my troops. Venom took Incubi to them soaked overwatch. Incubi jump out and started eating gun line for lunch.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 16:49

@Mppqlmd wrote:
- Wyches are not that great, with their eternal problem : S3.
- Hellions are not that great, because T3 5+ for that price is just not enough.
- Clawed Fiends and Khymeras are really good. For the price, their offensive output is great.
- Incubi are awesome sauce.
- Wracks are fine, since they are cheap, resilient (especially with T5) and can dish some good damage.

How many beastmasters do you run?

I'll soon have a full 12 bases for a flock and a full 12 khymerae models. At some point I'm going to source 6 clawed fiends. Trying to figure out if I should keep them both close to one beastmaster or run two.

[Note, I'm also planning on running in a wych themed list].
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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 16:54

In my opinion, Incubi are the best CC unit that we have, but it still doesn't mean that they can take out anything you throw them against. They shine against MEQ, but TEQ is not the best unit to assault.

I've actually had decent luck with Wyches. If I take them, I make sure to bring a succubus with them for the aura buffs. I typically bring 9 with a succubus in a raider. I never bum rush them up the field on turn 1. I generally hold them back and wait for a good target to present itself. That target could be a mean unit in the backfield that you don't want harassing your gunline, or a weakened tac squad. I use them to tie up stuff in my backfield or simply wipe the weakened tac squads. I generally run them with +1A. It seems that the sheer volume of attacks helps, but I'll admit I haven't done the math to see if the +1S would be a better option against MEQ.

While they are sitting back waiting, if my opponent decides to shoot at them.... well great! That just means that he's not shooting at my more important units. Wyches have by no means won a battle for me, but they serve a niche purpose and seem to do it reasonably well.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 17:01

Sadly, i've had more success with 10 wyches (and 3 hydra gauntlets) than with 9+Succubus. The succubus is less valuable than 2 extra hydra's.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 17:11

I think wyches are relegated to the harrassing front line right now. I'd like to see how 40 would do on a board though. If only for a giggle. With raiders it cost 1k in points, so not viable really. You would need to invest the rest of your army in dakka and pick off the guys you don't tie up.

I hope once we get our codex we will get some buffs to bloodbrides so we can mix them in as the special weapons unit, as well as having some stratagems to mitigate their fragility in shooting or alpha strikes
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 17:15

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Sadly, i've had more success with 10 wyches (and 3 hydra gauntlets) than with 9+Succubus. The succubus is less valuable than 2 extra hydra's.

I don't doubt it, but from an army construction standpoint, where would you put the HQs? Assuming you aren't running one of the other HQs and are using a succubus, and assuming you don't want more than 3 units of wyches to buy better units, I kinda feel like the succubus in the raider with 7-9 wyches is basically the best option within the constraints of the force org.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 17:16

Wyches are cheap melee troops, sadly tho they are to weak.

I play (or Played) KDK heavily in 7th and i must say, i rather (even in 8th for sure with the changes) have Bloodletters over Wyches.


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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 17:26

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Sadly, i've had more success with 10 wyches (and 3 hydra gauntlets) than with 9+Succubus. The succubus is less valuable than 2 extra hydra's.

Now that's interesting.  I'll try that out next time for sure.

@amishprn86 wrote:
Wyches are cheap melee troops, sadly tho they are to weak. I play (or Played) KDK heavily in 7th and i must say, i rather (even in 8th for sure with the changes) have Bloodletters over Wyches

I would rather have Bloodbrides too, but I feel that they are too expensive for what they bring.  For an additional 4 points you get +1 attack.  I would rather pay for an additional Wych to get another body to go with that +1 attack.  I'm praying that they get more access to special weapons like their shooty version...the Trueborn.

Agreed, wyches are cheap melee troops that are very weak.  But the as I said before, keep your opponent from firing at them and get them into combat and you'll be happy you brought them.  Or if your opponent DOES shoot at them, then it's also a positive, because he's not shooting at your valuable units.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 17:47

@merse24 wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Sadly, i've had more success with 10 wyches (and 3 hydra gauntlets) than with 9+Succubus. The succubus is less valuable than 2 extra hydra's.

Now that's interesting.  I'll try that out next time for sure.

@amishprn86 wrote:
Wyches are cheap melee troops, sadly tho they are to weak. I play (or Played) KDK heavily in 7th and i must say, i rather (even in 8th for sure with the changes) have Bloodletters over Wyches

I would rather have Bloodbrides too, but I feel that they are too expensive for what they bring.  For an additional 4 points you get +1 attack.  I would rather pay for an additional Wych to get another body to go with that +1 attack.  I'm praying that they get more access to special weapons like their shooty version...the Trueborn.

Agreed, wyches are cheap melee troops that are very weak.  But the as I said before, keep your opponent from firing at them and get them into combat and you'll be happy you brought them.  Or if your opponent DOES shoot at them, then it's also a positive, because he's not shooting at your valuable units.

They are 7ppm, the CSM had them in it and made them cheaper by 2pts

The biggest difference is that you can have Wyches in vehicles, but you can summon Bloodletters.

PS, ive gotten Wyches into combat many times, they just dont do enough damage, its either not enough Str, ap or attacks. But my Claw Fiends, 14ppm RWF, Incubi all at equal points of Wyches has always done much better. (2 units of 5man with HG/Agoniser).

yes it 10 models vs 3, 5 and 8, but only the Incubi are less wounds and they are in vehicles as well.

IMO they need 2 very easy and small things to be fixed.

1) 2 "Wych weapons" per 5
2) Hekatrix can get a Wych Weapon

Same for Hekatrix Squad, they ALL should get Wych Weapons.

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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 18:08

Lol, sorry amsh.....i misread your previous post. I thought you said Bloodbrides, not bloodletters.

I agree, Wyches don't need much to make them a solid choice
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 18:23

@merse24 wrote:
Lol, sorry amsh.....i misread your previous post.  I thought you said Bloodbrides, not bloodletters.  

I agree, Wyches don't need much to make them a solid choice

AH ok, np at all.

IDK why its not like that anyways, Trueborns get 4 specials, why cant Hekatrix? also whats the point of an elite unit that only is a troop unit with +1 atk?

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 21:54

Another thing that would be great for wyches ... Having their invuln more than just in the fight phase ... 5++ against shooting and 4++ against cca would be awesome. Possibly even adding a couple wych cult weapons that increase the wyches chance to keep the enemy in combat so they don't have a 50% chance of running away.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 21:54

Quote :
I don't doubt it, but from an army construction standpoint, where would you put the HQs? Assuming you aren't running one of the other HQs and are using a succubus, and assuming you don't want more than 3 units of wyches to buy better units, I kinda feel like the succubus in the raider with 7-9 wyches is basically the best option within the constraints of the force org.

When i field a succubus (which is very rare, i agree), she takes what i call the "Forest Gump tutorial for lonely HQs". +2 mvt drug, and ruuuun little lady.
There is no way i'm giving up 2 special weapons for that joke of an HQ ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 21:58

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Quote :
I don't doubt it, but from an army construction standpoint, where would you put the HQs? Assuming you aren't running one of the other HQs and are using a succubus, and assuming you don't want more than 3 units of wyches to buy better units, I kinda feel like the succubus in the raider with 7-9 wyches is basically the best option within the constraints of the force org.

When i field a succubus (which is very rare, i agree), she takes what i call the "Forest Gump tutorial for lonely HQs". +2 mvt drug, and ruuuun little lady.
There is no way i'm giving up 2 special weapons for that joke of an HQ ^^

I've been using her.... in the Tantalus with +2 LD drug for a 10LD infinite LD buff to my army XD


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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 22:02

Haha, even as a LD provider the Archon is surpassed by his rival HQs. That's very sad !

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Tue Sep 05 2017, 22:54

Well i mean LD9 vs LD10 and the No-escape can come in handy Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Wed Sep 06 2017, 00:04

@amishprn86 wrote:
Well i mean LD9 vs LD10 and the No-escape can come in handy Smile

I've been having trouble finding the time to finish my Tantalus, but that's my plan once it's done. Ld 10 Succubus for the bubble plus, if neccesary, helping my Incubi with No Retreat.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar in melee   Wed Sep 06 2017, 00:40

I must be missing something: How are you getting the leadership bubble with the succubus?
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