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 Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th

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der-al
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PostSubject: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Thu Aug 31 2017, 18:36

Since moving from 7th to 8th I've yet to win a game! Which is of as in 7th I had a good win ratio. I originally thought that it was just down to me trying to many different things to see what worked but it appears that losing can be habit forming.

My last game I ran pure true kin and would have won if I just made one more save with urian rackarth. Instead I was tabled. It was the relic and turn 5 and all I had left was urian who had the relic, but he died in the last shooting phase of the game, we also told to see if the game continued and it didn't. Anyway.

I've got a team game coming up and would like some feed back on a list. The format is two teams of two players each bring 1k of points.

I'm matched with a dark angels player who is bringing a fire base with 4 land speeders tech marine and Azrael.

The plan is for me to push up the board and give multiple target priority problems, while the dark angels force sits back and does the heavy shooting.

My list is:

Ynarri out rider detachment.

Yvrain (gaze and phoenix)

5 D-scythes wraith guard
5 D-scythes wraith guard

Hemlock wraith fighter ( conceal)

Clawed fiend
Clawed fiend
Clawed fiend
Clawed fiend
Clawed fiend
Clawed fiend

What do people think

As a side note the last time I played (by myself) against these two, (who are very good friends +25years) it was a farewell to 7 the game where I brought a pure true kin list, but faced two Imperial Knights, 3 soul grinders, grey Knight baby carriers and a bunch of paladins. To say that game didn't go to well would be an understatement. So revenge would be nice
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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Thu Aug 31 2017, 23:39

I just played with Wraithguard for the first time today, and that 8" range on the D-Scythes paired with the 5" movement was EXTREMELY prohibitive. Most of the time I used Soul Burst actions just to move them towards the next unit so they could shoot in the regular shooting phase the following turn. I think they NEED a wave serpent, unless you're planning on your opponents coming to you. And even if they do, they'd be smart to steer clear of the Wraithguard.

Running beasts without a beastmaster does not seem optimal. I would drop the clawed fiends and one squad of Wraithguard to add a Wave Serpent (for the remaining Wraithguard) and a Raider carrying 9 Incubi. Yvrain can ride in either transport. The Incubi will be great units for triggering or receiving Soul Burst since they want to be in close, just like the Wraithguard. They'll also put out roughly the same amount of damage vs the right target (infantry) - and the Dark Lance on your Raider will do work for you against Vehicles. Save your 3 Command points to reroll the D6 damage on the lance!
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Subsanity
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Fri Sep 01 2017, 02:39

I actually have my eye on Dark reapers for my ynnari. I have yet to play test but I keep hearing good stuff. They have a 48" range and you can choose a profile to shoot.
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der-al
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Fri Sep 01 2017, 09:02

@tonytasty did you run/advance your wraith guard? As D-scythes are assault flamers you can run and still shoot with them. The idea for them is more board control while moving up together with yvrain and to give my opponent something to shoot at.

I agree that wave serpent are probably the way too go as I've used them like this for editions but thought It was worth while giving them a go on foot.

I originally thought about trying to squeeze a beast master in but then thought that as they are all 6 individual units, used to initially prevent deep striking and then to give them an option, they can kill one which should be able to allow soul burst or ignore them and they will get into thier back field tying stuff up

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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Fri Sep 01 2017, 11:06

I think it looks like a strong list.

I want to know how the clawed fiends work out because, it will probably work well to trigger soulburst and to help cause target priority issues.

The wraithguard with D-scythes are going to have a huge target sign on them I don't think they are as good as last edition. D-cannons might be the way to go with them. Hitting on 4s after advancing isn't to for the damage they could do to large targets at a slightly longer range.

Incubi, or harlequins with 2 fusion pistols and embraces are other options. Both require transports which moves away from being an all foot list but, I think either option could do more work than the wraithguard. Plus, once the transport drops them off it's free to go grab objectives if they aren't taking shots that could be directed at the dark angels firebase.
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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Fri Sep 01 2017, 13:22

@der-al oh. my. god. How did I not know you could advance and shoot assault weapons?! My noob is showing. Thanks for the heads up!
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Fri Sep 01 2017, 16:55

@tonytastey wrote:
@der-al oh. my. god. How did I not know you could advance and shoot assault weapons?! My noob is showing. Thanks for the heads up!

Since everything can shoot and charge in 8th edition, that's the special thing with assault weaponry : they can run and shoot.

But since you can't normally run and charge, it means that assault weapons aren't meant to be used when assaulting... which is brilliant...

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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Sat Sep 02 2017, 01:50

You're gonna have a hard time pushing up the board and causing target priority problems with a best case scenario 19"-24"(soulburst movement from Yvraine) threat range on the Wraithguard. Try to get them in transports if you can. It's gonna take some serious re-thinking of your list for 1000 points, but honestly your opponent will just move away from the Wraith and either ignore them if he's fast enough or kite them while shooting them to pieces.

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der-al
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Sat Sep 02 2017, 17:38

I played the game last night and it went well. The wraithguard wall was quite effective, well at least on the first turn. I advanced the wraith guard so that I knew how far they would make it and then put the hemlock next to them. The hemlock popped conceal and suddenly the hemlock was -2 to hit and wraith guard -1 all in the centre of the table (pointy hammer and anvil).

On the opponent's next turn they took more or less the whole armies shooting. Storm raven gun ship, grand master in stead Knight armour, dread knight, havocs, rifle man dread and hell brute. I only lost 5 wraith guard in total, 2 from one squad and 3 from the other. Not a bad return.

The clawed fiends where as mixed bag. I used them to zone out the deep striking units and to prevent the dread Knights from teleporting into our backfield to have a go at our fire base. It worked but there's probably better ways of doing it. Other than that they didn't do much. towards the end of the game they kept dieing to overwatch. But I wasn't selecting the correct targets for them.

All in all I might try something similar say warlock with conceal running up with board with three units of D-scythes. Although the clawed fiends were tactically useful they lacked bite as single model units, 3 or 4 would probably have been just as useful. Although with a larger 2k, more foot based ynarri list they could be useful forcing death by over watch to trigger soul bursts as per my original thought which was highjacked by necessity.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Sat Sep 02 2017, 20:10

How have you been finding the lone Fiends for claiming objectives and area control ?
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der-al
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PostSubject: Re: Help an old dog win for the first time in 8th   Sat Sep 02 2017, 23:15

The clawed fiends were only really good for zoning out deep strikers / pyschic movement shenanigans, pushing the 9" null zone further out. Don't get me wrong I needed them to do it, but it wasn't my original plan for them. Once they didn't need to do it any more i.e. after everything that could deep strike had and after the dread Knights were more or less neutralised, they didn't do much. Although that was later in the game and the things that could have soul bursts from their death was also more or less neutralised.

They do die quick, which was the point, but as one model units they can only really take on poor troops like cultists.
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