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 Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari   Thu Aug 31 2017, 13:27

I recently threw down against a 2000pts Ynnari list (after asking for advice before the battle HERE) and I figured it would be good to share my thoughts on how the battle went, and what went well.

Considering I absolutely trashed the guy.


First, a note on his army and othewrs I've seen.
A lot of Ynnari lists I've seen (both at the Pillage as I TOed and at my local club) tend to go very similar - a few Kabalite Warrior squads to die easily and cause Soulburst, Yvraine to optimize Soulburst, and some specialist fire units, notably either Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers or Wraithguard.
My opponent this time had all of thw above, plus an Autarch, three Wave Serpents and two Wraithlords.

For this game, I ran two Haemonculi escorting a unit of three Talos, two units of Incubi in Venoms, three units of Warriors in Raiders, a unit of Mandrakes and a Ravager. Also Illic Nightspear.



MANDRAKES or Scourge
THe very first thing I did in teh game was deploy my Mandrakes in a good spot for firepower. A common tactic with ynnari is tpo bucnh the army together, either in one or a pair of clumps to best make use of Soulburst when a unit dies. As a result, this can leave areas of their deployment zone clear, and maybe leave a few things a little exposed.
My game opened with a ten man Mandrake squad appearing from Ailendrach within shooting range of the Dark Reaper unit, and blasting it from the table in turn one. That is a strong unit to remove, consdidering the damage it could easily do to our light-weight transports, and being turn one the only things which could make use of the Soulburst were Kabalites (everything else being in a Transport and hoping to get closer to my army). As it was, he used that Soulbrust on Yvraine to use a Psychic Power which did very little damage.
I used Mandrakes, but Scourges can do just as well. not only do you get close enough to do heavy damage to a priority target, but you cause the opponent to split some small section from their army to deal with that unit which is going to bug them otherwise. Those are units not causing or taking advantage of Soulburst.

PRIORIZING TARGETS
Expanding on the above, I found it helped massively to make sure to target well. In the first turn, his specialist weapons units were mostly in Wave Serpents becase they needed the speed. So I had my pick of Dark Reapers and Wraithlords to target with Mandrakes and all of the Lance I could throw against them.
Removing the Dark Reapers was a clear tactical advantage from the start, leaving my transports and Ravager much happier to mauever around. Kabalite Warriors, or small, basic units such as them, should NOT be your main targets. All they will do is trigger Soulburst, giving better units a chance to harm you in your own damn turn.

HOLD BACK
The strength of Ynnari is the strength of their Eldar parts, and some of that is our speed. So we have to take that from them.
Its always temtping with Dark Eldar to rush at the enemy. Get in close and throw out as much firepower and combat fun as possible, but against ynnarti they are ALSO relying on us getting close. They need us close to their D-Scythes and Fusion Guns both for effectiveness and so that WE can trigger Soulbrust too. They work best chaining off of us. Because they are us.
I found it helped a great deal to hold what I could back. Mandrakes attacked the flank, and Talos advanced, but otherwise my Raiders, Venoms and Ravager held back and moved back where they could to get their turns shooting in before getting close was really a necessity. You're halving the possible number of Rapid Fire shots, but its better to get more turns of shooting against ynnari when they're far away than one turn with them close.

TALOS
I mentioned Talos, and would advise them heavily against Ynnari. For one, they can take a beating, especially with Haemonculi nearby. They can soak a lot of fire, which is especially useful when an Ynnari army is chaining shooting attacks from things dying.
And if they survive, they can get in clsoe to deal with bigger, more annoying things like Wraithlords.

NOT KILLING ENEMY UNITS then sweeping up
One of the things I tried to do from the start (except with single model units) was to not kill whole units. Weaken them wherever possible, and reduce their numbers, but keep them as weakned units where possible. This way they weren't dying and triggering Soulburst, but were drastically reduced in effectiveness on the board.
Probably a simple one, but thought I'd throw it in.
Once I weakened those units, I threw in a strong combat unit - two units of Incubi on clear up duty. They're fast, they're strong, and they can slice up most things their own size. In my case, I used them to cut through two halves of Fire Dragon units which had already suffered to SPlinter fire, and most of the enemy Kabalite Warriors.

VARIED VEHICLE WEAPONS
I ran Dark Lances on every Raider, but the Ravager I tooled with Disintegrators. Up against Ynnari, I found the Lances good for taking out vehicles and Wraithlords obviously, but the Disintegrators were far more useful against the two units of Wraithguard and Fire Dragons.
Venoms went in with the standard two Splinter Cannons, as did the unit of Talos, and the weight of fire from them was more than worth it.

FORGET YVRAINE and the Autarch
If you manage to get into position to attack Yvraine, then you've either wasted something else or worked far too ahrd. If used (which she probably will be) Yvraine will be surrouned and well protected. Granted she may be the Warlord, but getting into position will be a bad move. You'll either leave yourself exposed, or will have lost models in the process.
And even then, if you harm her, she will heal when you try to target something else.
Her strength is being able to control and chain Soulburst, but this si NOT as bad as it sounds. You CAN whether it if you maintain focus on your other units. It may seem annoying or harmful, but she can't stand alone if you take down the units around her.
In my game, the Autarch became all but useless as a character once the three Aspect units were cleaned up, which came very early in the game.

LEADERSHIP SHENANIGANS
Strength From Death triggers "Each time a unit is completely destroyed within 7" of one or more units with this ability, EXCEPT IN THE MORALE PHASE".
And we definitely have something to work with here. I was killing things, and I was ALSO using Phantasm Grenade Launchers. And when I started dropping Leadership thanks to Power From Pain in turn five (whoever thought THAT would be sueful), what he had left started to flee the board.

ILLIC NIGHTSPEAR is crap
A final note, I took Illic thinking I could get some sniping in. I did originally think that taking Yvraine out with a Sniper would be very useful, but learned later how unnecessary that would be. But the thing I also learned is that Illic is either awful, or hates me. In the course of the game, he killed a single Kabalite Warrior. Though he did also take a Smite for me, saving another unit because he was slightly nearer to Yvraine.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari   Thu Aug 31 2017, 13:57

Quote :
In the course of the game, he killed a single Kabalite Warrior. Though he did also take a Smite for me, saving another unit because he was slightly nearer to Yvraine.

As with all things - redundency matter. Illic by itself not gonna do anything, Illic and 2 squads of rangers can. There is only one sniper who can get things done all by himself and thats Vindicare Assasin. Hitting 2+, Wounding 2+, Ignore Invuls, Ignore Cover, Multiple damage good AP.


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PostSubject: Re: Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari   Thu Aug 31 2017, 15:24

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
In the course of the game, he killed a single Kabalite Warrior. Though he did also take a Smite for me, saving another unit because he was slightly nearer to Yvraine.

As with all things - redundency matter. Illic by itself not gonna do anything, Illic and 2 squads of rangers can. There is only one sniper who can get things done all by himself and thats Vindicare Assasin. Hitting 2+, Wounding 2+, Ignore Invuls, Ignore Cover, Multiple damage good AP.


Aside from Cover and Invun, Illic is not far off that. 2+, 2+, AP-3 and DamD3!
Plus he's reasonably cheap.

But I get your point. He was a silly addition because I didn't know what else to take.
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PostSubject: Re: Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari   Mon Sep 04 2017, 01:04

I've never seen DE Ynnari honestly, ive only seen extreme Eldar ones

Shadow Specters, Wraith with Swords in Wave S, Dark Reapers, Autarch, Yvraine, and a Floating Farseer.

If i had more money and the models were available and i was doing a comp list it would be...

Farseer - Bike
Yvraine - In WS
Autarch - in WS

Shadow Specters x10
Shadow Specters x10
Shadow Specters x10

Dark Reapers x5 - in WS
Dark Reapers x5 - in WS
Dark Reapers x5 - in WS

Wave Serpent, SC - VE
Wave Serpent, SC - VE

Edit: Fighting Ynnari is basically kill all units to 90% strength then finishing them off later, and making him spread out.

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Mon Sep 04 2017, 14:12; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari   Mon Sep 04 2017, 04:10

Hellions ... I played a game against Ynnari using 2x10 hellion squads and they actually did work their +1 str weapons and flat 2 damage are pretty potent against Yvraine with only her 4+ invuln to keep her safe, my opponent was also running eldar bikes so killing a bike per attack instead of needing two was also pretty good. I will have to run the list more to see if it was a fluke they did so good or if they can consistent perform at a level they regain their points.
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PostSubject: Re: Squidtactica: vs. Ynnari   Wed Sep 06 2017, 14:23

Including units that are deliberately left too weak to be able to perform under the assumption that this will benefit the army is the trap of the Ynnari. It seems like a good idea, but it isn't. That seems like a huge blunder on his part.

There's a lot of good advice here, though.
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