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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Tue Aug 22 2017, 17:31

I hear sometimes that you never use pfp, for me it is vital.
The last turn matters little, but the 6+ saves quite a few of my guys, and I love it.
The reroll on charge and +1 to hit make our melee units at least slightly possible to use.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Tue Aug 22 2017, 17:44

Apologies, by the way, Squidmaster.

I hadn't noticed that you'd already suggesting getting CPs via PfP. I didn't mean to steal your idea.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Tue Aug 22 2017, 17:55

Quote :
I hear sometimes that you never use pfp, for me it is vital.
The last turn matters little, but the 6+ saves quite a few of my guys, and I love it.
The reroll on charge and +1 to hit make our melee units at least slightly possible to use.

A 6+++ is blasted unreliable, and really does little to mitigate damage.without a Feel no Pain, it takes 6.00 Lasgun shots to kill a Kabalite. With the save, it takes 7.12. Woo. Of course it's immune to instant death but really, save for my Archon, no one wasted S6 on my Kabalites in 7th. More often than not, such weapons were reserved for destroying my transports.

The Reroll to charge is admittedly a big boon, it really helps close the gap from our shoddy transport rules. +1 To hit helps my units..kinda...usually my assault units are too busy being bloody holes in the ground to get much use out of it.

Really, Power From Patience fundamentally clashes with our army. A game for a Dark Eldar player is usually decided by Turn 3. Why they put in a mechanic that is based on time in an alpha strike army is beyond me.

I'm not sold on Command Points as a concept yet, but I think the idea to earn one per unit destroyed is a good solution. Works well with our playstyle, opens up list building options to give us a better head start, and no complex charts to keep track of. One thing to consider, however, is that our units, as far as I can tell, are priced according to their value on T4-5 (That's basically how I justify that our infantry generally pays too much for what they actually bring to the table in their limited lifespan, while the only major fleshy unit without PfP (Beasts) are some of the only decently costed units in the Codex.)

One last thing on the matter of Beasts. It's a bit nitpicky, but it's been irking me to no end. You should be able to buy Khymera individually, rather than in pairs. It's been annoying me to no end that I have to choose between a unit of 10, or two units of 4 and 6, rather than just two units of 5 like I used to do.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 08:52

You can buy 2 units of 5 if you play points, just not if you play power level.

yes 6 lasguns or 7.12 lasguns does not sound like much of a difference.
But considering we have 30-50 guys in our army he suddenly need 33-56 extra shots, that is an extra unit (or 2) of shooting. And I mainly love the 6++ so much since I can shout "Pijn is Fijn" (a Dutch saying meaning something like pain is pleasure) whenever I roll those dice. My regular opponent now seems to think I save 80% of my PfP saves because it feels like I always get a save after a save and it bugs him no end. It is more the moral victory when a unit is just not wiped because I made the PfP save then that it makes such a huge difference.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 09:00

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
I hear sometimes that you never use pfp, for me it is vital.
The last turn matters little, but the 6+ saves quite a few of my guys, and I love it.
The reroll on charge and +1 to hit make our melee units at least slightly possible to use.

A 6+++ is blasted unreliable, and really does little to mitigate damage.without a Feel no Pain, it takes 6.00 Lasgun shots to kill a Kabalite. With the save, it takes 7.12. Woo. Of course it's immune to instant death but really, save for my Archon, no one wasted S6 on my Kabalites in 7th. More often than not, such weapons were reserved for destroying my transports.

The Reroll to charge is admittedly a big boon, it really helps close the gap from our shoddy transport rules. +1 To hit helps my units..kinda...usually my assault units are too busy being bloody holes in the ground to get much use out of it.

Really, Power From Patience fundamentally clashes with our army. A game for a Dark Eldar player is usually decided by Turn 3. Why they put in a mechanic that is based on time in an alpha strike army is beyond me.

I'm not sold on Command Points as a concept yet, but I think the idea to earn one per unit destroyed is a good solution. Works well with our playstyle, opens up list building options to give us a better head start, and no complex charts to keep track of. One thing to consider, however, is that our units, as far as I can tell, are priced according to their value on T4-5 (That's basically how I justify that our infantry generally pays too much for what they actually bring to the table in their limited lifespan, while the only major fleshy unit without PfP  (Beasts) are some of the only decently costed units in the Codex.)

One last thing on the matter of Beasts. It's a bit nitpicky, but it's been irking me to no end. You should be able to buy Khymera individually, rather than in pairs. It's been annoying me to no end that I have to choose between a unit of 10, or two units of 4 and 6, rather than just two units of 5 like I used to do.

I see where you are coming from but for a person that when plays "pure DE" i' play Trueborn heavy lists, the +1 to hit and re-roll charges has won me games, trueborns can easily do 2-3 wounds on a troop unit in melee if your Sargent has an Agoniser its a more reliable 2-4. My trueborns do at least dbl what Wyches do, b.c of shooting and the ability to kill off the last 1-3 guys in cover on an objective is.

Sense Fly units can not hold objectives we are seeing more ground units being played (Horde is a thing).

Also about beasts... I think they did that b.c of Ynnari, if players could run around with 7 Khymerae's in Ynnari it would be a little strong.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 09:26

@amishprn86 wrote:
Also about beasts... I think they did that b.c of Ynnari, if players could run around with 7 Khymerae's in Ynnari it would be a little strong.

You've lost me there. Why would 7 (specifically) be too strong?

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 09:30

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Also about beasts... I think they did that b.c of Ynnari, if players could run around with 7 Khymerae's in Ynnari it would be a little strong.

You've lost me there. Why would 7 (specifically) be too strong?

Because MATH!!!

Should we really be balanced for stuff in other armies that might get allied in?

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 10:02

Not 7 as in a golden number, just "X amount of MSU single man units", it could be 1 it could be 20... it was a freaking example lol........

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 14:20

Quote :
Not 7 as in a golden number, just "X amount of MSU single man units", it could be 1 it could be 20... it was a freaking example lol........

I'm not saying we decrease the minimum squad size..I'm saying that instead of measuring Khymera exclusively in pairs for no reason they should be able to be bought individually...like every other unit in our codex.

Just because I have the ability to buy 6 Kabalites does not mean the minimum squad size of Kabs decreases to 1.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 17:22

They are always scared of the power of DE!

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 20:58

Why 7 specifically ... Why because 7 is slaanesh's number!!! Or at the very least the number that was incredibly common with the Yncarne ... And as such 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The ultra broken number of any ynnari army! Take 7 of any unit (aside from uniques) and watch as the op level of the army goes over 7777! (Aye I know it was just an example number but I thought it was kinda funny that ya randomly though up the chaos number of slaanesh/Yncarne and sorry if it offends ... I can be pretty bad at jokes Sad ... )
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 21:56

Relic gear specific to kabal, cults, and covens would be really cool.

I'd like to see posion get some help either through a stratagem or aura buff or both. A 3+ posion would be nice. Rerolls on the wound would be better. Can't lie I get jealous of all the rerolls Imperial armies get.

Grotesques getting another wound would be really nice. Even better if there was a way to get a 5+ FnP type save after the 5++.

The Talos needs more damage output.

The hexrifle not being an overly expensive sniper rifle would be nice too.

Lastly, return of the webway portal.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 22:10

What if the Lhamean were upgrades to a Dracon for Trueborn? In the fluff they're a Cadre of warriors, granting a mastery of poison and serving as advisors and officers to the Archons. I don't think it would be that far of a stretch for one to be tasked with leading elite shock troops into battle, and, really, she'd just need to lose the character keyword, get a cost decrease, and go down to two wounds, and they would be identical to Trueborn defensively--which seems to be the perquisite for a unit given the loss of the majority toughness mechanic.

You could then add in an ability for her so that any unit she's put in has Poison 3+. That'd give Trueborn an actual use again, give a boon not negated by a transport, and offer a fun option for anti-infantry shooting.

Thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 22:31

@TheBaconPope wrote:
What if the Lhamean were upgrades to a Dracon for Trueborn? In the fluff they're a Cadre of warriors, granting a mastery of poison and serving as advisors and officers to the Archons. I don't think it would be that far of a stretch for one to be tasked with leading elite shock troops into battle, and, really, she'd just need to lose the character keyword, get a cost decrease, and go down to two wounds, and they would be identical to Trueborn defensively--which seems to be the perquisite for a unit given the loss of the majority toughness mechanic.

You could then add in an ability for her so that any unit she's put in has Poison 3+. That'd give Trueborn an actual use again, give a boon not negated by a transport, and offer a fun option for anti-infantry shooting.

Thoughts?

It works. Personally, I want Lhameans to be cheap HQ options with an aura buff.

I also want a special rule that our aura buffs work on all units embarked on the same transport as our characters.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 22:39

Quote :
I also want a special rule that our aura buffs work on all units embarked on the same transport as our characters.

I think the fact that we can't is why our HQs are often rendered entirely non-functional. Perhaps even have the Character extend the aura to the transport itself?

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Wed Aug 23 2017, 22:47

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
I also want a special rule that our aura buffs work on all units embarked on the same transport as our characters.

I think the fact that we can't is why our HQs are often rendered entirely non-functional. Perhaps even have the Character extend the aura to the transport itself?

Maybe.
I mean none of our auras have any affect on embarked troops anyway! (Does anyone know why we got such underpowered auras in the first place?)

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 00:16

@FuelDrop wrote:
@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
I also want a special rule that our aura buffs work on all units embarked on the same transport as our characters.

I think the fact that we can't is why our HQs are often rendered entirely non-functional. Perhaps even have the Character extend the aura to the transport itself?

Maybe.
I mean none of our auras have any affect on embarked troops anyway! (Does anyone know why we got such underpowered auras in the first place?)

Maybe they thought we don't need auras since we are mostly on our transports. Or high speed, good Wyches or anti-horde capabilities.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 07:09

I actually say let it be that we do not have aura's in our transports.

Does it make sense (not really), but it is a general rule. Most of our aura's are lackluster and only really effect when we are not in a vehicle anyway. It also means that we actually get some advantage from not being inside our transports.
But this does mean that we should have:
1) characters with viable options for buffs when not inside a vehicle.
2) viable characters where we do not have or pay for buffs so the character is made to function inside a vehicle, so is not just useless.
3) enough space inside a vehicle to have a unit and a character without losing out on most of our special weapons.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 12:16

That's why, if our Archon gets a force multiplier, it should be an ability that targets enemies instead of an aura.
I would love the Archon to get an equivalent to the "Doom" psychic power. "Mark to kill".

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 14:05

I like that idea, mainly becaue then I would not be as tempted to let a farseer lead my slave raids.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 14:16

It would be perfect.
It would suit the alpha-strike and the focus fire style that defines this army : killing targets one at a time.
It would not be prevented by the Vehicles rules, since it's not an aura.
It would make the Archon a fearsome tactician and a cruel pirate pirat
(Sadly, this is not my idea).

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 14:26

That is indeed an excellent idea.

Are you thinking of making it akin to a ranged weapon? (Except it does no damage and gives other attacks rerolls to-wound if it hits.)
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 21:09

As long as they don't make it a copy paste version of the one in the start collecting box ... Shortly after that one came out GW explicitly stated the archon could not use the ability from inside a transport ... but I do think it is a great way to actually give the archon a unique character ability
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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 22:16

@Archon_91 wrote:
As long as they don't make it a copy paste version of the one in the start collecting box ... Shortly after that one came out GW explicitly stated the archon could not use the ability from inside a transport ... but I do think it is a great way to actually give the archon a unique character ability
Not that you can put an Archon in a Vehicle anyway...
If HQs gain access to mobility options, then it comes irrelevant. I'd love to have a jetbike Archon zooming between raiders and pointing the key targets.
If they raise the capacity of transports, they'll have to make sure the Archon can use his ability while inside.

Anyway, either scenario is better than the current one.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Codex Wishlisting   Thu Aug 24 2017, 22:17

I'd still love a Winged Archon or Scourge Lord HQ.
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