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 Medusae "spam"

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 15:16

so I have 2 actions in a venom and thought I could take some court of Archons minis so I looked at all of em and thought: Lheamen is crap, Sslyth is good but too expensive, ut-gul is ... well ur-gul but then I saw the medusae stats and thought hey with 2 blastchons and I could put 3 of em in a Venom and use em for heavy infantries killing
what do you guys think of that?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 15:25

Remember that you can't use his re roll when they are in a transport. That's why I would not use them actually. Otherwise they were fine

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 15:29

CptMetal wrote:
Remember that you can't use his re roll when they are in a transport. That's why I would not use them actually. Otherwise they were fine
´
where is that said?

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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 15:47

Rules for open-topped transport. You only shoot, no auras or anything work. I believe it was officially clarified in one of the FAQs.

If they were still auto-hit flamers it might be good. As it stands though you're not reliably killing a MEQ per turn. .8 I think? Not worth the investment IMO.

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 15:56

so from what I gathered is that auras work in open topped vehicles but I really don't know?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 16:53

CptMetal wrote:
Remember that you can't use his re roll when they are in a transport. That's why I would not use them actually. Otherwise they were fine

Actually, the wording of the Transport/Aura rules make this a bit uncertain:

Court of the Archon: "You can reroll failed hit rolls for this model while it is within 3" of a friendly <Kabal> Archon."

Transport rule: "Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

(Emphasis mine.)

The Court of the Archon rule doesn't affect other units - only the model that possesses it (a nearby Archon is required but not actually affected). Hence, going by strict RAW, it shouldn't be stopped by the Transport rule (of course, you've then got the issue of how distance is determined).

I think the RAI on this one is anyone's guess. It could be that the Court of the Archon rule was given to the Court members (instead of the Archon) specifically for this reason. Or it could just be that GW messed up the wording on that interaction.

Someone mentioned that there was an faq that clarified things, could you maybe quote the relevant section?
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 17:39

The Shredder wrote:
CptMetal wrote:
Remember that you can't use his re roll when they are in a transport. That's why I would not use them actually. Otherwise they were fine

Actually, the wording of the Transport/Aura rules make this a bit uncertain:

Court of the Archon: "You can reroll failed hit rolls for this model while it is within 3" of a friendly <Kabal> Archon."

Transport rule: "Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

(Emphasis mine.)

The Court of the Archon rule doesn't affect other units - only the model that possesses it (a nearby Archon is required but not actually affected). Hence, going by strict RAW, it shouldn't be stopped by the Transport rule (of course, you've then got the issue of how distance is determined).

I think the RAI on this one is anyone's guess. It could be that the Court of the Archon rule was given to the Court members (instead of the Archon) specifically for this reason. Or it could just be that GW messed up the wording on that interaction.

Someone mentioned that there was an faq that clarified things, could you maybe quote the relevant section?

actually no u don't have a distance problem, in 7th buffed were just measured from the hull of the vehicle, and your idea is great. good job finding that detail. im just gonna talk to my local gaming club and ask them but I'm pretty sure after this that i can get rerolls
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 17:45

BRB, page 183, Transports, second paragraph of "Embark" section.

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked.

Open topped rules from our index under Venom and Raider:

Models embarked on this model can attack in their shooting phase.

It explicitly lays out what you can do. you can shoot - no auras.

I'll look through the FAQ when I get a chance but I thought they did cover this one.


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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 18:04

So, just to be clear, if Medusae had an ability that said "This unit may reroll all failed to-hit rolls.", you're saying that they wouldn't be able to use it while embarked?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 18:32

That's a good point but I don't think it helps in this case as you would still need to measure range to a unit that is not on the table

Quote :
Embark: If all models in a unit end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark within it. Remove the unit from the battlefield and place it to one side – it is now embarked inside the transport.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 19:02

Count Adhemar wrote:
That's a good point but I don't think it helps in this case as you would still need to measure range to a unit that is not on the table

Quote :
Embark: If all models in a unit end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark within it. Remove the unit from the battlefield and place it to one side – it is now embarked inside the transport.

That's okay - just make sure you put the Medusae within 3" of the Archon on whatever other table you put them on. Very Happy

Joking aside, I think you're right.

It is rather weird though (not just this but the aura rules in general). I can understand auras not extending to models outside of the vehicle but it's rather odd that the aura doesn't even affect units inside it. Neutral

If you fancy arguing the point, you could always point out that there is nowhere on a Venom where an Archon and Meduase could stand and not be within 3" of one another. Razz
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae "spam"   Thu Aug 17 2017, 21:42

Another point to this is the medusae doesn't affect other models ... Just itself so while it is true abilities would not be able to affect anyone else the rules don't actually state what happens to a model affecting itself as it is not "another unit". At this point I realize that this argument is nothing more then pointing out the smallest of loopholes that gives the medusae an advantage over anything else in it's situation.
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