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 Interesting charge rule.

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TheHostwiththeMost
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PostSubject: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 21:05

So I saw this come up in a battle report the other day and I had never even thought about it, but it might really affect our games.

During the fight phase, "Models that charged this turn can only target
enemy units that they charged in the previous phase."

This is BIG.

So unless they declared a charge on the second unit, they cant actually consolidate into another combat. However, you can hit them if they try as you didnt charge this turn and therefore are free to pick any models within 1" of enemies.

Make sure your opponents are declaring charges against every unit they plan on throwing attacks at. If you werent in combat and didnt shoot overwatch, they cant hit you.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 21:13

You can consolidate into units that you didn't charge. You just can't attack them. It is still effective against units with massive anti-infantry attacks. You don't get to attack, but they can't shoot (unless they Fly or are Ultramarines).
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TheHostwiththeMost
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 21:18

Ah, yeah I wasnt really clear about that. To me "combat" means someone has thrown a punch. You can 100% consolidate within an inch of enemy models, however you cannot consolidate into another attack.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 22:10

Aye but that only applies to the turn you charge, afterwards in any subsiquent assualt phases, if you are within 1" of enemy models, you can attack them.
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TheHostwiththeMost
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 22:43

@Archon_91 wrote:
Aye but that only applies to the turn you charge, afterwards in any subsiquent assualt phases, if you are within 1" of enemy models, you can attack them.

You must be cheating, DE dont survive a round of combat...  lol!

But yeah thats a seperate thing entirely.  Its not as OP when you are alternating activation of units in assault.  

However, weaving units together is back!

Also, this is pretty big for characters.  You can assault my unit, I can heroic intervention my HQ and now I can attack with my hq but you cannot attack my HQ (well unless you declared a charge against it).

I am still coming up with ways to deny enemy attacks in CC all based on this core rule that I think a lot of people are missing or misinterpreting.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 23:00

And a clarification comment on consolidating into combat. I'm assuming it was intended for "Pile In" as the pre-swing melee move. Barring special rules, Consolidate is at the end of the phase for the unit and they wouldn't be able to Fight again anyway. (I wish Wyches were Berserkers...)

And heroic intervention is awesome. As a counter though, since most Characters that want to be in combat have crappy ranged weapons, why wouldn't you always declare a charge against any close characters? Then if the option pops up you can still swing.
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TheHostwiththeMost
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Wed Aug 16 2017, 23:53

There are actually many ways you can attack again during a turn...

Soulburst, CSM stratagem, and that blood angel / space wolf thing where they get to attack again before the model is removed come to mind, but I am sure there are more.

People should always declare charges against anyone they think they might swing on at some point in the turn.  Now if your opponent always remembers this.... that's different question =P
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 04:53

Hmm. So if Khorne Berserkers charge Unit A, destroy Unit A, then consolidate into Unit B, they wouldn't be able to swing? Since they didn't charge that unit in the "previous phase"?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 06:46

@Myrvn wrote:
Hmm. So if Khorne Berserkers charge Unit A, destroy Unit A, then consolidate into Unit B, they wouldn't be able to swing? Since they didn't charge that unit in the "previous phase"?

Hmmm. That's a good point. Might require some FAQing. Though, RAW, I would say that they cannot fight again. They would have had to declare a charge against both units in order to fight both unit A and B, regardless of the number of 'fights' that they get. It seems like a reasonable interpretation that would keep them from being too OP, while still pretty much ensuring that they massacre most units that they do manage to charge.
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TheHostwiththeMost
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 06:46

Exactly.

Core rules say if the unit charged this turn they can only attack units they charged in the previous phase.

The chaos stratagem says: "Use this stratagem at the end of the fight phase" indicating it is still the fight phase so fight phase core rules apply "Select a Heretic Astartes Khorne infantry or biker unit ~ that unit can immediately fight again"

So it seems pretty rock solid, the khorn zerkers would have to declare a charge against every unit they plan on attacking if think they might use the stratagem. Crazy right.

You all dont seem nearly as intrigued as me lmao.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 08:49

So it's basically worthless for them against us since whatever they touch of our small units evaporates in close combat anyway.

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TheHostwiththeMost
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 08:52

@CptMetal wrote:
So it's basically worthless for them against us since whatever they touch of our small units evaporates in close combat anyway.

Yep yep and it make your opponent math hammer how much overwatch he wants to take, that is... after the first time you go "sorry you cant attack, you didnt charge them this turn" lol!

Now how can we abuse this.
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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 09:33

Maybe have units behind other units? Maybe Hellions and just fly away, shoot like hell and the Hellions could mop up whatever's left by charging?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 09:40

The Berzerkers can declare charges against any and all units within 12". The only drawback for them doing so is that they face overwatch from all those units. Sadly, we don't really have much that is scary in overwatch to make that a particularly tough choice for them.

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URIEN
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 09:45

Well the idea was they wouldn't attempt to since they are behind their first target, I would expect them to declare charges at other units next to the first one. Like to the left or right.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting charge rule.   Thu Aug 17 2017, 10:28

Ow, here people often do it, also characters nearly always get charged if they are anywhere in the vicinity. Only when a lot of powerfull overwatch shots are on the line people might prefer not to charge them and just get into combat with them since they are scaryer shooting then in cc.
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