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 Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?

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Glutenfreek
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PostSubject: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Fri Aug 11 2017, 23:03

I'd like to convert one of these two battlefield studs, but I'm wondering which have you found more effective for the points? Yncarne seems super OP but with the inability to charge first turn or bubble wrap, makes me weary. Thoughts?
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Fri Aug 11 2017, 23:47

Avatar. The Original and the best.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Sat Aug 12 2017, 00:12

The Avatar hits like a truck, is about as resilient, is more effective in close combat, and has a shooting attack so it can actually make use of battle focus. It's also substantially cheaper. The only downside is it doesn't regenerate wounds and it can't teleport and it isn't a psyker. However, anything in its aura (which is a whopping 12"!) is fearless and rerolls failed charges.

If I had a choice I'd run the Avatar of Khaine over the Yncarne although neither are slouches. This is partly because I think the Ynnari need to die in a fire but mostly because its playstyle is more geared towards my own and I think I could use it more effectively. Keep in mind it's fearless and rerollable charges apply to *all* CWE units including things like tanks, War Walkers, etc.

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Glutenfreek
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Sat Aug 12 2017, 00:46

So then what's the best way to include the avatar of khainr in a DE army? (It should be in DE instead of eldar anyways)
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Sat Aug 12 2017, 16:07

I'd probably field the Avatar in an Eldar list and the Yncarne in a Dark Eldar list.

The Avatar is cheaper and his aura is very good for Eldar.

Yncarne is far more mobile though, so I'd lean towards using him in a DE list.

However, I should point out that I'd probably never field the Yncarne in my DE list. I can't stand the model, the Ynnari don't really interest me beyond a few fun pieces of wargear in 7th and the Yncanre just doesn't fit in at all with my army-building philosophy.
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Glutenfreek
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Sun Aug 13 2017, 04:10

Yea, not a huge fan of the model either, but I think the possibilities for conversion are wiiiide open.
I was thinking I'd basically just do an all dark eldar list but just include them as either the -1 cp detachment or a patrol
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Sun Aug 13 2017, 08:16

The Yncarne is clearly a Slaaneshi demon. How come no-one can see this in universe?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Sun Aug 13 2017, 15:49

Both are birthed from manifestations of the Eldar psyche, and both occupy a similar role. It's just that one is malevolent towards Aeldari and the other is benificent. It makes sense that they'd have some aesthetic similarities.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Mon Aug 14 2017, 00:14

I mean the Yncarne is Slaanesh immediately post fall in so far as they are the direct instantiation of amassed Eldar souls. It's just that these particular souls spent their lifetimes on the pursuit of order and discipline rather than wanton debauchery. Ynnead and the greater portion of Slaanesh are of the same stuff more so than simply being of the warp. I firmly believe that Ynnead is capable of severing the eldar and non-eldar aspects of slaanesh in two and then joining with the eldar half and becoming a singular eldar deity representing an eternity of eldar twilight rather than a new dawn.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Mon Aug 14 2017, 01:25

I prefer to see it as a terrible plot device utilized when the writers have no idea how to get the heroes out of a bad situation.

But it's a cool model I guess.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Mon Aug 14 2017, 08:35

I like the plot advancement. There have always been hints of the laughing gods plans and a possible salvation of the Eldar race. I think it's cool. But I won't play them because they are just too OP. Want to keep my friends. Therefore I'd say take the avatar.

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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Mon Aug 14 2017, 13:57

amorrowlyday wrote:
I mean the Yncarne is Slaanesh immediately post fall in so far as they are the direct instantiation of amassed Eldar souls. It's just that these particular souls spent their lifetimes on the pursuit of order and discipline rather than wanton debauchery. Ynnead and the greater portion of Slaanesh are of the same stuff more so than simply being of the warp. I firmly believe that Ynnead is capable of severing the eldar and non-eldar aspects of slaanesh in two and then joining with the eldar half and becoming a singular eldar deity representing an eternity of eldar twilight rather than a new dawn.

The main difference between Slaanesh and Ynnead / the Yncarne is while they both exist by the collected power of many eldar souls, Ynnead keeps each one of those souls separate and protected instead of totally blending and merging them (destroying them) , as Slaanesh do.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 01:01

Quote :

I like the plot advancement.

The first step of solving a problem is admitting you have one. I'm proud of you, CptMetal.

Quote :
The main difference between Slaanesh and Ynnead / the Yncarne is while they both exist by the collected power of many eldar souls, Ynnead keeps each one of those souls separate and protected instead of totally blending and merging them (destroying them) , as Slaanesh do.

That and Slaanesh was built out of a symbiotic relationship with not only an entire founding chapter of Space Marines but an entire Xenos race and was woven into the lore over the course of 2 decades while Ynnead was basically a napkin drawing until they decided to wedge him into the plot like a fat man in the middle seat of an airplane isle.

Edit: What I wanna know is, why did both Avatars get knocked into the HQ slot?

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Keast Kannegaard
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 05:58

TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :

I like the plot advancement.

The first step of solving a problem is admitting you have one. I'm proud of you, CptMetal.

?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 13:51

It was an oblique personal attack, Keast. Let's all try to keep the discussion civil and on-topic, please. If someone would like to discuss the comparative fluff between the two any further than a brief aside, then perhaps a separate thread would be better.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 14:02

TeenageAngst wrote:
Edit: What I wanna know is, why did both Avatars get knocked into the HQ slot?

Wasn't the Avatar always an HQ?

TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :

I like the plot advancement.

The first step of solving a problem is admitting you have one. I'm proud of you, CptMetal.

Well, I think I can safely say that I'm no longer the snarkiest person on this site.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 14:05

I think wether you take the avatar or yncarne depends a lot on how you build your army.

The yncarne is as mentioned more mobile and works better with units to boost, the fact that it is also a psyker is really good for dark eldar since it ads a bit of psychic defense which we drastically lack. But if you want to make the most use of it you should build your army with it, just adding it on top does not work well I think.

The Avatar is more of a beatstick, but it misses the synnergy with the dark eldar completely. But if you do not want to build around it, then it probably works better then the yncarne. Also I think the model is nicer, I dislike the ghost things and slaneshy style looks.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 14:21

The Shredder wrote:
TeenageAngst wrote:
Edit: What I wanna know is, why did both Avatars get knocked into the HQ slot?

Wasn't the Avatar always an HQ?

The old boy was hanging around the LoW slot in 7th. Seeing how it fit him. Wasn't really his thing so he gave it up.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 14:23

FuelDrop wrote:
The old boy was hanging around the LoW slot in 7th. Seeing how it fit him. Wasn't really his thing so he gave it up.

Oh, okay. I suppose that made sense, what with him being a literal Lord of War.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 14:29

Worth remembering that the Avatars buff bubble still works on Ynnari units as long as they are Asuryani. So you could field the Avatar in an Aeldari detachment with your Ynnari combat units in a separate Ynnari detachment and still get the Avatars buffs on them.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 16:44

It's called being glib people, geez. Anyway I think both avatars together would be too much for a real matchup. Too top heavy and they can't tank super well.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Avatar of Khaine or Yncarne?   Tue Aug 15 2017, 20:44

Don't forget that the avatar has some real cool conversion ideas Already Out there!

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