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 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?

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Lost Vyper
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 12:53

Hi!

I´ve tried this unit now in 7th & in 8th edition and i find it to be kind of meh...it cost LOADS of points now days (155p if i remember correctly) and altough it seems to hit a lot, it really struggled against Black Templar marines in CC (had Incubi & Talos to back them up)...i´ve converted three models to represent them (still unfinished) and i´m wondering, should i do something else from them? Grotesques were the obvious choice in 7th, but they seem quite lackluster too at the moment. Any suggestions? I´m gonna still play them more, to see if they are really s***, but does anyone have any 8th edition experiences with them to share?

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Cerve
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 14:07

Strange, I used to play 8 of them with 2 Beastmasters, and I find them pretty good for their costs. Probably our best CC unit
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 15:18

8th edition, there are 3 reasons to bring Grotesques over CF : they can take a vehicle, access to poison weaponry (which is useless anyway, it wastes their strength) and they can take some guns.
Other than that, Clawed Fiends are better, faster, cheaper, and arguably more resilient.

So i would say they are pretty neat. But 3 isn't enough to justify the (huge) price of the beastmaster. Maybe you'd be impressed if you ran more of them ^^
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Rathstar
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 15:41

One of the things affecting their efficiency is the increased cost of the beastmaster. Maybe increasing the clawed fiends and adding a unit of khymerae so you are getting more out of the beastmaster buff you'd see greater returns.

At the moment the beastmaster is a third of the combined units costs mainly for the buff of rerolling to hit.

Incubi will be better against 1 wound marines, as you're not getting anything out of the clawed fiends D2 hitting power, and don't underestimate the increased speed of the beasts.

Lets run some mathhammer with a bigger unit of clawed fiends and against primaris marines:

Beastmaster(Agonsier) + 5 Clawed Fiends (220pts) vs 10 Incubi (200 pts)
=0.8 Beastmaster Wounds + 12.6 Clawed Fiends Wounds vs 9.5 Wounds
NB: I included the Klaivex's extra attack, but ignored Lethal Precision

So the Clawed Fiends are tougher (20 T5 Wounds for 5 models) and are better if fighting multiple wound models, and light vehicles, such as Primaris marines, bikes, T5 vehicles etc. Clawed Fiends will also be better against more lightly armoured troops and swarms where the Incubi's AP-3 will have less of an effect.

I wouldn't go overboard on Clawed Fiends, but they're ok.

Rathstar

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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 18:42

I´ve run 4 Incubi + Klaivex and they have delivered in each and every game. And their point cost (90p) is a fair price for what they do. Well, it could be the fact, that i´ve played more games with them, that i prefer them as my n.1 CC unit at the moment.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 19:38

You'll get no argument from me. They are phenomenal for their points.
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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Thu Aug 03 2017, 22:47

I have 9 so far (3 more on the way). Running only 3 and a beastmaster is not worth it run 6 at least.

Also ever charge with your beastmaster first!! - I learnt this the hard way after he not gunned down by over-watch.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Mon Aug 07 2017, 20:49

I have 3 kill a 5 man Terminator squad that DS behind me.

I love them and use them almost every game, but i only take 3 of them, if im doing MSU units the are in squads of 1 other wise just a unit of 3. and always just 1 BM.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Mon Aug 07 2017, 22:16

3 Clawed Fiends beating 5 termies seems like a very good performance, but I don't think it's what you can typically expect, is it?

I've had a Klaivex drop a Daemon Prince in one attack round this edition, but I don't think that's something I'll be able to expect on the regular.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Mon Aug 07 2017, 22:33

2 damage -1ap, if 1 wound goes through that 1 dead terminator. (3+ saves is still really good, but the BM really helps get enough hits to make up for it)

You just need to be slightly above average to kill 4, i did that and he failed a LD check on 1 guy.

On average 2-3 should die honestly. Your looking at 5-6 wounds on average.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Mon Aug 07 2017, 23:06

This whole thread convinced me to try a list with 10 dogs. 10 fiends and 3-4 birds (i.e. all my beasts). I'm away from my area right now but when I finally get a game in with it ill let you know.

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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Tue Aug 08 2017, 19:05

Just to buff up the Incubi (didn´t get to play with the CF´s today, smaller game), Klaivex held his own against Mephiston for two rounds (that included surviving from Smite AND Blood Boil too), i just rolled BADLY to wound (needed 5´s) for both of the rounds...Thursday should be another game, where i can try to CF again!
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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: 3 x Claw Fiends + a Beastmaster?   Fri Aug 11 2017, 11:50

So...i demolished the GK yesterday, with only 4 GK models (basic troops) left on the table...and the CF´s were first to die, thank the dicegodz the BM was still around, not giving the First Blood Smile. I played them aggressively (needed the objective close to his Dreadknight) and they soaked up the fire (almost everything Smile ). Because they are beasts, you can´t get the cover bonus (which sucks) and the ruins didnt help...Aaannnnnd the Incubi didnt deliver either Smile. That was due to a poor choice of targets (DK on one wound) and the Klaivex couldnt wound him...
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