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Darkin
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PostSubject: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:16

i have enough points spare for em, should i put em in
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:18

Mandrakes have been considerably buffed in 8th, are a now a very good source of mortal wounds, with a secondary okayish cc ability. They can deepstrike, which is neato, and are hard to hit.
So yes, definitly. They are not auto include in every list, but there are worse way of spending 100ish points.

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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:30

They are awesome backfield harassers and are surprisingly resilient.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:32

Take 15 ;-)

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:46

should i strip one 5 man incubi squad for another 5 man squad mandrakes?
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Darkin
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PostSubject: mandrakes vs incubi   Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:11

sry for the spam guys Smile but what unit is better
they have a pretty similar stat line
my play style is fast an aggressive if that helps
Thanks bounce
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:47

Duplicate threads merged. Please refrain from posting duplicate topics to get more responses.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:48

I like Incubi better, but I tend to run shooty lists so the Incubi round the army out. If you have a melee heavy army, then I'd prioritize Mandrakes instead.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:54

Indeed, they are similar with 3 S4 attacks. The Incubi are better in melee due to AP-3, but the Mandrakes have a good shooting with potential mortal wounds. Incubi have better armor, but Mandrakes have inv and hard to hit.
In the end there is one dealbreaker : incubi need a transport, and are thus more expensive to field. Mandrakes are independant, will yield the same results, and are more polyvalent due to excellent shooting. They are also more resilient to heavy weaponry, but will die fast to things like flamers, or any large number of small fire arms.
So both are efficient, but Mandrakes don't need a transport and are more polyvalent, which makes them a tad better.

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:58

Mppqlmd wrote:
Indeed, they are similar with 3 S4 attacks. The Incubi are better in melee due to AP-3, but the Mandrakes have a good shooting with potential mortal wounds. Incubi have better armor, but Mandrakes have inv and hard to hit.
In the end there is one dealbreaker : incubi need a transport, and are thus more expensive to field. Mandrakes are independant, will yield the same results, and are more polyvalent due to excellent shooting. They are also more resilient to heavy weaponry, but will die fast to things like flamers, or any large number of small fire arms.
So both are efficient, but Mandrakes don't need a transport and are more polyvalent, which makes them a tad better.
you know my army list what would you say suit it better?
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:07

Well your list (as it currently is) doesn't have any transport for the Incubi. And you just can't footslog them. So the answer is Mandrakes.

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:12

Mppqlmd wrote:
Well your list (as it currently is) doesn't have any transport for the Incubi. And you just can't footslog them. So the answer is Mandrakes.
i do have a raider in there (maybe i forgot it Sad ) but id probably change to mandrakes 1. i ike the models a lot more and 2. the flanking opportunities with those guys are endless


Last edited by Darkin on Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:31; edited 1 time in total
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:22

Jeah they both have there uses.
I usually find that mandrakes work well in any army, But excessive number do not work that well.
Since they can fulfill most things at least a little bit, they are a lot better in small TAC games while in larger games you have enough points to buy more specialised units, a unit of incubi (in transport) and some blasterborn (again in transport) will do slightly better then mandrake spam I usually keep fielding at least one unit of mandrakes who get regulated to flanking/deepstrike support.

A ravager is an anti tank vehicle, not a transport vehicle.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:24

I'm not sure why you mention the Ravager : it's not a transport.

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:33

@|Meavar and i mostly play 1250-1500 points and i would take 2x10 mandrakes maybe?


Last edited by Darkin on Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:45; edited 2 times in total
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:36

No need to insult yourself, everyone started out as a noob Smile
Okay so your choice breaks down to include your raider in your list, and put Incubi in it (that would require you to take out some units, if you want to stay at the same points), or field Mandrakes (which would be more logical, since you prefer them anyway ^^)
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:55

Mppqlmd wrote:
No need to insult yourself, everyone started out as a noob Smile
Okay so your choice breaks down to include your raider in your list, and put Incubi in it (that would require you to take out some units, if you want to stay at the same points), or field Mandrakes (which would be more logical, since you prefer them anyway ^^)

how many would you recommend im 1500 p?
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 20:48

I don't think that's a good approach.
To me they are list fillers. So IMO you'd better take everything you need for your list (ravagers, raiders, kabalites, planes, all the important stuff), then see what points you have left. Then you can reach for 5-10 mandrakes.
They are good because you can take them in any list, without vehicles. They are good because you don't have to plan everything around them. So pick all the things that need a complex organisation first, then fill the leftover points with mandrakes Smile

I'd also like to recommend you a very good conversion that allows to build Mandrakes at 50% of the cost : Spirit Hosts. Here is the link to the Kabal where i saw that conversion, by CptMetal Tainted reborn
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 21:01

But if everything is inside a transport, keep in mind to deep strike them where small arms fire can´t kill them as retaliation!
That´s important. Otherwise you just throw them into a meat grinder.
Happened to mine against death guard.
Damn those guys are tough!

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sat Jul 29 2017, 21:18

Not i have 2 blastchons with agonizers in venoms
4x5 kabalites with one blaster in venoms
3 razorwings in their detachment
and i had enough points for 15 man drakes
is this list good?
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Morgrim
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sun Jul 30 2017, 13:00

I love them both and have both in my army.
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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sun Jul 30 2017, 16:01

I have found mandrake to be extremely useful against SMunits in cover. I always try to use them to root out devastate squads that always seem to be sitting in some sort of ruins. The mortal wounds eat right theough then
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sun Jul 30 2017, 19:54

Mandrakes are good. But comparing them to Incubi is pretty silly, as they're meant for different things. Incubi are best when thrown at something like a... whatever the marines call their heavy weapons squads. The AP-3 completely changes what they can kill. Mandrakes should go after lighter armored targets and popping bubble wraps that your opponent has on important units.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Sun Jul 30 2017, 21:14

Chippen wrote:
Mandrakes are good. But comparing them to Incubi is pretty silly, as they're meant for different things. Incubi are best when thrown at something like a... whatever the marines call their heavy weapons squads. The AP-3 completely changes what they can kill. Mandrakes should go after lighter armored targets and popping bubble wraps that your opponent has on important units.

The word you're looking for is devastator squads, i believe ?
I would disagree, their role is very similar. The fact that Mandrakes have a healthy access to mortal wounds makes them very good candidates to hunt down heavily armoured targets, which are also the targets of Incubi. But Mandrakes don't care about toughness, while anything T5 or higher becomes a huge challenge for Incubi.
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: are 5 mandrakes useful   Mon Jul 31 2017, 00:32

Wounding on 6s isn't really what I'd call a "healthy" source of mortal wounds. But for the points comparison, I'd be interested to see math on 10 Mandrakes vs 5 Incubi and vanilla Venom guns (since the Incubi would necessitate a transport).

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