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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: IG vs DE   Fri Jul 28 2017, 19:09

Hey everyone ! Here's how my recent raid went. It was a casual game, in a friendly event, so my list is a bit of a mess, i went out of my comfort zone to try some units/config. Some convinced me (so i learned a lot), some didn't.
I played :
- Archon (blaster) and 5 trueborns (2 DL, 3 blasters) in a raider (dissie)
- 2*10 kabalites (with DL) in a raider (dissie)
- RWJF (dissies)
- 2*6 reavers (grav talon only. +1 T and +1 A)
- 5 scourges wiht 4 DL
He played
- Bane Blade (aouch).
- 2 Leman Russ
- 50 conscripts with 2 HQs to buff
- 10 scions with a mix of melta and plasma
- Vendicar sniper
- Some regular guards

I got first turn. I dropped the scourges is a building, where they got a 2+ save that discouraged him from shooting them (he only did it a bit, and i saved it, so he stopped). One reavers squad advanced to threaten his Vendicar, while they other moved and shot the conscript, killing a few with the help of Kabalites in raiders. Everything else i had shot the Baneblade, and inflicted 15 wounds to it (he was quite amazed). That was a very good first turn, and i loved having so many dark lances in my kabalite squads.

His first turn, the baneblade exploded the archon/trueborn raiders, and damaged another one up to 4 wounds. His scions dropped behind a wall and started pouring melta shots at my third raider, dealing 8 damage with 2 melta wounds. The Vendicar failed to wound my Archon (on 2+...), and his conscript dealt little damage to my reavers (wounding 1).

My second turn, i finished the Baneblade and started wounding a Leman Russ. One reavers squad went back to charge the scions, and while they got really hurt (overwatch first, then a nasty plasma pistol), they managed to kill them all in 2 turns of cc. My second reavers squad charged the second Leman Russ to keep him from shooting, and inflicted a mortal wound. Since his vehicle blew off, the blasters from Trueborns and Archon were not in range (and never were...).

His second turn, he finished the 2 wounds of my raider with a Leman Russ, while the other fell back, and exposed my Reavers to the conscript shooting, killing 5 of them. Other shootings went to my Trueborns, killing them all in open field. The Vendicar tried to kill my Archon, but very lucky rolls of Inured to Pain made him survive.

3rd turn and forth, it went down to a grinding game where my 3 reavers, 20 kabalites and my archon tried to mash their way through 50 conscripts that could fall back and shoot every turn due to very aptly given orders from their Company Commander (he knows his stuff. Maybe he should teach our Archons a few things), eventually killing them all, while my scourges and my beautiful plane finished the two Leman Russ that couldn't hit anything because of degrading profiles.

The only living unit of his army was the Vendicar that still managed to headshot my Archon on his last turn. I don't care, with that amount of incompetence he would not have lived long in Commorragh. In the end i still had 2 objectives held by both Scourges and Kabalites, while his Vendicar held one, so victory was mine.

My thoughts : Reavers can hit hard in melee, and did a wonderful job against scions, but i don't think it justifies the 360 points i put in both squads. The RWJF did well, even though i never rolled higher than 3 for his missiles. The blasters were useless, but they had their vehicle removed turn 1 so i can't blame them.
The real winner of the game was Dark Lances on kabalites and trueborns (and scourges, but i had already tested that one). I'm used to play Splinter Cannons on Kabalites, and for 5 more points the pain DL brings to the table is huge, so i will definitly be playing those more, and i highly recommend them !
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Sun Jul 30 2017, 08:27

I have also seen Dark Lances really shine now. Command Points are there to help with the occassional miss that "shouldn't" have happened as often in a round.


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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 21:09

Just a question...how is your Trueborn unit taking 2 DLs and 3 Blasters ?

Is it 5 Trueborn and 1 Dracon?

In general how do you feel about target priority with Lord of War type units ? Do you always focus fire on them and ignore everything else or do you ever have moments where you feel like you can put more hurt out by ignoring it?
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 21:27

@lcfr wrote:
Just a question...how is your Trueborn unit taking 2 DLs and 3 Blasters ?

Is it 5 Trueborn and 1 Dracon?

In general how do you feel about target priority with Lord of War type units ? Do you always focus fire on them and ignore everything else or do you ever have moments where you feel like you can put more hurt out by ignoring it?

The basis of target priority revolve almost always to the question "What will hurt me next turn and how can I prevent it?"
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 22:01

Against that army (2 leman russ, 1 baneblade, and conscript), i asked the total weapon load out of each tank (they have 4-7 weapons each), and started doing math, dividing the pain they brought to the table by the resilience they had.
My math told me the Baneblade had to die. And i was right. It fired once, with -1 BS due to being hurt, and it OS a raider and brought another midlife.
In a game like this, where everyone has 36-72" weapons on every vehicle, threat bubbles are almost inexistent. My thinking is what do i gain by killing it, and what will it cost me to kill it.

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 00:09

How did you manage 2+ save on Scourges, they only start with 4+ Very Happy
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 00:25

@lcfr wrote:
Just a question...how is your Trueborn unit taking 2 DLs and 3 Blasters ?

Is it 5 Trueborn and 1 Dracon?


@Hellstrom wrote:
How did you manage 2+ save on Scourges, they only start with 4+ Very Happy

I'm afraid both questions are founded.

You have to take a Dracon, who does not have the option to be equipped with a Blaster.

And

The building only gives +1 cover.
Unlike in 7th when different terrain had different cover values, in the new rules page 248 "Schlachtgelände"  in the german book, i didn't find any terrain that gives more than cover(page 181), which is generic +1.

But great battle report! Really liking the new Dark Lances Smile

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 09:38

This is a friendly game, and we consider the current rules for buildings to kinda be a joke (the IG player says "How much HP does that building have in 8th edition ?", and we realized there was no rules at all for it), so we still use a lot of 7th edition concepts when we find that 8th is lacking them. And since we used the same rules for the hidden Vendicar, it was fair.
Rules for terrain aren't out yet, let's be honest Smile

About the trueborns : can't i take, using the understrength unit rule, a unit that misses the Dracon ? That was what i had in mind Smile


Last edited by Mppqlmd on Thu Aug 03 2017, 12:02; edited 1 time in total
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Morgrim
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 11:28

Good to see our Dark light taking down the Imperium armour! I dont have enough DL parts to make my Kabalites with them, i used them all up getting the scourge unit together! You have convinced me of the need for as much DL as I can get!
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 12:59

Me too, i ripped them off my unpainted Scourges, because of how bad the moved penalty on Heavy weapons was before, now i'll play the Blasters as Dark Lances, double range and damage? Yes please!!!

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 14:41

@Mppqlmd wrote:
This is a friendly game, and we consider the current rules for buildings to kinda be a joke (the IG player says "How much HP does that building have in 8th edition ?", and we realized there was no rules at all for it), so we still use a lot of 7th edition concepts when we find that 8th is lacking them. And since we used the same rules for the hidden Vendicar, it was fair.
Rules for terrain aren't out yet, let's be honest Smile

About the trueborns : can't i take, using the understrength unit rule, a unit that misses the Dracon ? That was what i had in mind Smile


I think the terrain rules are the best/most balanced ever.

You can't take understrength anything if you are playing "Matched Play"
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 16:13

Well, that's another reason not to field trueborns again i guess.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Fri Aug 04 2017, 21:48

I thought that you could take an understrength unit as an auxiliary detachment for match play according to the FAQ? Maybe I'm behind on them because there's been so many. I know a lot of tournament organisers were siding on banning them, but for GW match play I thought understrength units were completely fine.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Mon Aug 07 2017, 12:53

As an Auxillary, you can, but not in a normal detachment.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: IG vs DE   Mon Aug 07 2017, 19:20

Right, but that doesn't stop us taking them at all. I know it's steep the fact that it costs a command point, but it has its place. If it costs me a command point to get my Archon in a Venom rather than pay the points (and lose the 10 splinter shots of the venom) by switching to a Raider, I feel it's worth it. It depends on what your list needs, but having a way to fit things in to transports for less points/ with less restriction on whether we take a Venom or not is nice.

Of course it would be better if our transports worked with minimum sqauds with a space for a HQ, but I digress.
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