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 Tournament list at 1650p DE

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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:55

Hello,

I want to play a mainly shooty army.

The list looks like this:

Battalion Detatchment 3 CP

2 Archons with blaster/agoniser [146]

8 kabalites with a blaster [71]

1 raider DL [115]

2x 5 kabalites with a blaster each [100]

1 raider DL [115]

2 Ravagers 3 DL [310]

Airwing Detachment 1 CP

2 razorwing jf with DL, SC [340]

1 voidraven bomber with missiles [194]

Total so far 1391.

This leaves 259 points for upgrades and something else.

I like another raider with 2x5 kabalites 115+ 100

Or a raider with incubis or wyches/bloodbribes and one archon becomes a succubus. Maybe DL scourges. Or another ravager. This is what I need help with deciding.

I don't own mandrakes, ynnari, coven or craftworld so they are not an option.

I appreciate any time spent to write a response.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Jul 26 2017, 14:58

The list looks pretty good, but there are a few changed thst i would consider.
For basic changes I want to say maybe add a little counter assault to the army. Maybe switch out an Archon for a Succubus or Haemonculus. And add either wyches or grotesques? In a Raider of course.

I was going to say toss in a farseer for Doom! Because that spell makes it much easier to kill what you want. But I know that you don't have any Craftworld stuff so no big.
Your list has plenty of anti tank, but I really lacks in the AI department. There are lots of small changes that I think you can make, but nothing major. I would maybe suggest getting some units/upgrades that focus on AI.
Just a few suggestions.
Trueborn with 2 splinter cannons in a duel cannon venom makes a solid unit. Or drop the kabalite blasters and give them to the trueborn. And maybe drop a raider for another Venom?

Scourges are pretty good as well. A little more fragile then venoms, but they do pack more firepower.

Disintegrators are really good as well. They help a bit against hordes and are great against elite stuff and good against vehicles. Taking disintegrators on the Razorwings will help a lot. The Ravagers and bomber give you some solid AT. Disintegrators are also good at AT when needed.



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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Jul 26 2017, 16:25

I wanted to add some disintegrator cannons - most likely on the raiders though, because their overwatch is otherwise useless.

Would you take wyches over the elite version?
2x5 or 10?
I would give them blast pistols/agoniser/hydra g.
On 10 its 1 blast pistol, 1 agoniser, 3 hydra
On 2x5 its 2 blast pistols, 2 agoniser, 2 hydra.



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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Jul 26 2017, 16:34

I just take regular wyches. Agoniser on the hekatrix and maybe a PGL.

Wyches are not an amazing combat unit, but they do tie units up for a good while. I like the +1attack or +1toughness drugs on the wyches. One kills more stuff and try other allows the wyches to hold unit up longer in combat.
I like the +2movement combat drugs on the succubus a lot. It has worked out really well.

I just take a unit of 9 and have the Succubus ride along.

The elite version has its merits, but if I were to spend more points on a combat unit in would take Incubi.
5 wyches and 5 Incubi in a Raider could be cool as well. Maybe brig to 8 kabalites to 10 and give them a cannon. Give the Archon(s) a venom ride if possible.

PGL on the Archon is pretty nice as well. Worth the few extra points


But definitely try more anti infantry. The more the better. And few disintegrators and a venom or two (2 being better) will set you in the right direction

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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:36

Thanks for the advice.i tried to avoid venoms because i wanted to keep the deployment number as small as possible.

Re farseer: I am concidering getting one. But then I am tempted to get full use out of guide and doom and want to add another craftworld unit. Guardian Defenders or more likely dark reapers. Most likely with a wave serpent to keep the deployments low.

Is that overkill?
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:50

Don't force the Craftworld, Doom and Smite every turn is very good on its own, don't fret not being able to cast Guide on anything.
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Jul 27 2017, 10:22

Allright. I took all suggestions into my new list for 1650p and end up with:


HQ
Converted Farseer, Witchblade
Succubus, Blast pistol

TROOPS
3x5 Kabalites, blaster, 2x PGL
9 wyches, Blast pistol, agoniser, hydra g. (+1T or +1A)

FLYERS
2 RWJ, 2 DL
Voidraven b., missiles

SUPPORT
2 Ravagers, 2 DL, 1 DisC

TRANSPORT
1 Raider DisC
3 Venoms (bare bones)

That's 1650p. Any more suggestions?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Jul 27 2017, 13:44

Looks pretty fun. I would keep the Ravagers all dark lances. Missiles are ok on the bomber, but not necessary. How many points are they?

If dropping the missiles and the disintegrators from the Ravagers will give you enough points then maybe give the venoms the extra cannon.
I know some people are saying that the extra points for the cannon on the venom is not worth it, but I have found it to be really good. 12shots are 18" is a lot better than 8. And 6 shots at 36 is a lot better than 3.

Your current list looks very similar to the 1650 list I had at a GT a few weeks ago. Haha

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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Jul 27 2017, 15:59

The missiles cost 25p.

I wanted to try out the dissies. I am low on d3 damage here.

How did the list play against the meta on the GT?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Jul 27 2017, 17:21

I played really well. One ork horde was really tough. But that was my buddy and he won best general so cool there. 4 of my games I crushed. My second loss was me being a dummy. I thought I had enough time to have one more quick turn, but time ran out. Hado I hadam be 1 minutes I could have grabbed every objective and won that game.

If you want disintegrators I would either get another raider and put the dissinitegrators on the Raiders instead of the Ravagers. Or put the dissinitegrators on the Razorwings. Disintegrators on Razorwings is really good.

Disintegrators are a straight 2 damage which is nice.

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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 10:45

I tinkered a bit around and I came up with another detatchment structure:
The farseer in my playtests was way to strong and trigered my opponent.
My goal with this list is to play in a friendly tournament environment where fun should be first priority. Still I want a strong list.

Any comments and additional advises are very welcome.


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [55 PL, 1142pts] ++

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 82pts]: Blast Pistol

+ Elites +

Hekatrix Bloodbrides [7 PL, 159pts]
. 6x Hekatrix Bloodbride
. Hekatrix Bloodbride with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets
. Hekatrix Bloodbride with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets
. Hekatrix Bloodbride with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets
. Syren: Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Incubi [5 PL, 98pts]
. 4x Incubi
. Klaivex: Demiklaives

Incubi [5 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Incubi
. Klaivex: Klaive

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 156pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Shock Prow

Ravager [8 PL, 156pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Shock Prow

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 116pts]: Dark Lance, Shock Prow

Venom [4 PL, 95pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 95pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 95pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, 504pts] ++

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Voidraven [9 PL, 194pts]: Two void lances, Voidraven Missiles

++ Total: [80 PL, 1646pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 20:16

List looks fun. I would switch the void lances for the Scythe.  It is much better. And you already have lots of lances.

The void lances are a little better at AT against T8, but against anything else the Scythe is better. That and it is much better against meq/teq

Bloodbrides like the Strength drug over the extra attack as well.

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 20:58

Wow that's a harsh reaction to the Farseer....They're hardly game breaking, did none of your opponents ever succeed in Denying Doom? Because shutting down Doom basically makes the Farseer worthless. He was on foot too wasn't he?

Anyways, I dig the new list, but I think Mandrakes and a smaller squad of Wyches would be better. I don't feel like the Bloodbrides' 4pt increase is justified.

If they made the unit like Trueborn, +4pts for +1A and greater access to Wych weapons then we might be talking.
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Wed Aug 02 2017, 21:14

The guy who got trigered by the farseer did not have psychers himself. But he was already triggered by the amount of dark lances I brought. The other guy played knights so he was fine with it.

Yes he was on foot with 3 razorwing flocks screening him. Worked suprisingly good enough.

I dont have mandrakes unfortunately. And I like to push 10 wyches into someones infantry Very Happy 40 attacks hitting on 2 at turn 3 and rerolling 1s. Its gonna be a bloodbath for sure.

I never really looked at dark scythes. I guess thats perfect to go after bikes or terminators. It requires 24 inch but it should be fine since only flying things can charge him and there are 2 more flyers harassing the backlines by then.

Thanks for the tipp.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 10:52

maybe even put in some mandrakes give you more board control character assasination and thry font need a transport
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 20:35

New structure with little improvment. I cut down on dark lances and got back the farseer. Just to be sure that something goes down with doom if my ravagers get killed first turn.

I am quite happy with the list. I think it can deal with everything very efficient.


++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, 544pts] ++

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 175pts]: 2 Disintegrator Cannons, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 175pts]: 2 Disintegrator Cannons, Twin splinter rifle

Voidraven [9 PL, 194pts]: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [50 PL, 993pts] ++

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 82pts]: Blast Pistol

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 57pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Wyches [3 PL, 66pts]
. Hekatrix: Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

Wyches [3 PL, 66pts]
. Hekatrix: Blast Pistol, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power sword
. 3x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

+ Elites +

Incubi [5 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Incubi
. Klaivex: Klaive

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 156pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Shock Prow

Ravager [8 PL, 156pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Shock Prow

+ Dedicated Transport +

Venom [4 PL, 80pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 80pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 80pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 80pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [6 PL, 113pts] ++

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 113pts]: 2. Doom, Witchblade

++ Total: [81 PL, 1650pts] ++
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Thu Aug 03 2017, 22:52

Where are the Succubus and Farseer going? I'd want the Farseer on a bike and the Succubus in a transport, otherwise they're going to be very exposed.
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Fri Aug 04 2017, 15:47

Farseer will be on foot. Behind some venoms and behind him are the ravagers. I usually protect my deployment zone pretty good by spreading my units. Nothing will deepstrike anywhere close. I thought i will unload the warriors on the first objective anyway and the succubus will take the venom. Or i will deploy them already like that.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Fri Aug 04 2017, 19:44

I'm less concerned about deepstrike and more concerned with whether he'll be effective if you have to move out from your deployment zone. With the bike he keeps up with the rest of your army easily and is more able to move away from oncoming threats if need be. He also only has 24" range on doom, which is another reason for the bike, because although 24" is good it's not amazing and the bike increase his threat range. I'm also not a fan of the lone character in a transport because you lose models when a transport explodes. It's only a 1 in 6, but still very painful and not something I would want to expose myself to unless absolutely necessary.
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Tournament list at 1650p DE   Fri Aug 04 2017, 19:51

Well. I agree but I dont have the model on a bike. I just converted the regular one. Plus i did not have the range problem yet. Together with the advance movement he got in range and usually my games where decided after 2 turns of shooting.
I also camped out in my zone because I had the no mercy mission. Might be different on other missions. Will see...
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