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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 03:53

@Hamartia wrote:
I didnt realise people were having that much success with kabalite warriors this edition, whats the best way to run them?
We've had multiple discussion over it. What seems to shine out is same as ever :
- 10 in a raider, 1 heavy weapon optional (both seem to be played, DL or SC)
- 5 in a venom, with or without blasters. With splitfire on everyone, this is a bit better than before.

There also was a discussion about fielding footslogging kabalites to replace the RW spam ^^

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 05:09

I've had nothing but horrifying failure with footslogging.
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 05:37

I have had nightmares about my kabalites footslogging...
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SarisKhan
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 06:23

Umm, there's a reason that the number of Raiders in my army builder excel file is equivalent to the number of Kabalite Warrior units I input Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 06:43

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
Well, one thing you miss : Ravagers do not prevent "teleport/charge". Razorwing does against "on foot" troops which are 95% of the units that can teleport.

I use Razorwing differently depending of the ennemies. But 2 Razorwing is fine to help prevent teleporters from charging you. If you play defensively, in a corner, its quite easy to prevent every no-fly units to charge your main army when they arrive. Otherwise you can also deploy correclty to have only one flank to protect from Teleports.

Usually, deploying and denying a flank help except if you spam 80 Kabalites...

I use Flocks for those reason..... And if i go 1st my fliers have to move so now my turn 1 anti charge units are no good if they are flyers.


Also about kabals, my kabals dont do anything at all.... literally nothing, my trueborns are great tho.

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 08:32

@amishprn86 wrote:

Also about kabals, my kabals dont do anything at all.... literally nothing, my trueborns are great tho.
It really is a question of playstyle i guess. Some space marines players only swear by TAC marines, others find them pointless (or only worth the special/heavy weapons you stack in them). I have to say Kabalites warriors have never let me down. Except when i realized Ork Koptas have become vehicles (they were jetbikes), and you have to wound them on 6 Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 09:12

I actually used Kabalite Warriors with AM on Venoms my first time in 8th at 1000 points, against Primarines..

...I shred them down, litterally. That was a one way game, I was surprising about them. They still really good!

The only thing that makes me to think is that PfP it's almost wasted with shooting units. Charge reroll and +1AC are great boosts on CC units, and playing a full Kabal list doesn't make me feel a real DE this time Sad it's like playing without the full potential of the army, I'm basically not using my army rule.

Sad but true, probably a Kabal list is better as an Ynnari list. Until the new Codex
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 11:58

@lcfr wrote:
I put mine in Venoms with a Blaster and a PGL. They don't leave unless they are ready to claim an objective but most matches seem to end pretty lethally and don't boil down to objective vps for me so far.

Either that or they are forced out from the comforts of their vehicles. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 21:13

@amishprn86 wrote:
@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
Well, one thing you miss : Ravagers do not prevent "teleport/charge". Razorwing does against "on foot" troops which are 95% of the units that can teleport.

I use Razorwing differently depending of the ennemies. But 2 Razorwing is fine to help prevent teleporters from charging you. If you play defensively, in a corner, its quite easy to prevent every no-fly units to charge your main army when they arrive. Otherwise you can also deploy correclty to have only one flank to protect from Teleports.

Usually, deploying and denying a flank help except if you spam 80 Kabalites...

I use Flocks for those reason..... And if i go 1st my fliers have to move so now my turn 1 anti charge units are no good if they are flyers.


Also about kabals, my kabals dont do anything at all.... literally nothing, my trueborns are great tho.

If you go first you can manage your Flyers also, you can bring them in correct position T1 but you then wish the other guy does not take your initiative with a 6. I think flock can still be used to do that, 2 or 3 packs of 3/4 can still make the job as they are 40mm bases.
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Fri Jul 28 2017, 21:15

What i was saying they have to move 20" where flocks dont have to.

PS you always plan to go 2nd Wink that way you are never SOL when they seize.

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sat Jul 29 2017, 23:15

I've been picking the razorwing over the ravager myself for both purposes of blocking deepstriking assault units and for objective scoring.  

Even with the forced move of 20", that just means I move some of my venoms into the the gap and they block everything.  If you need to prevent moving up at all though I have just turned them and had them fly along my battle lines so that they essentially didn't move at all.

I play a lot of ITC events and the razorwings are great for scoring all the objectives that need you in the enemy deployment zone or at distant objectives.  Yes, you trade one lance for the missiles and twin rifle which I just consider break-even but more importantly you gain -1 to be shot at and an immunity to most charges.  Having an identical stat line otherwise, that gives the razorwing a substantial durability buff in my book.
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 01:06

However, it is much easier to hide a Ravager behind terrain completely and prevent the enemy from shooting at it altogether.

Anyway, I use both Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 01:15

"Hard to hit" is a truly awesome rule. I just finished a game where the enemy Leman Russes had to hit the RWJF on 6's due to degrading profiles... it made him unkillable.

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 06:09

I play smaller games (1.2K) against orcs a lot, I tried one last game and it was awesome. More then 1 razorwing feels just evil against them.

But we had a question, can orks walk under the vehicle, or should they stay more then 1 inch away from it's base? It felt a little bit weird that orks had to walk al the way around it (waiting is just as usefull for them since they only move 5 inch so they cannot even walk all the way around it), but had no way of assaulting it since it was so far up, and missed everything with shooting because it moved so fast.
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 06:40

They are units, and you can't walk under 1" of an enemy unit if you don't charge it. They can't charge it.
There's a reason why flyers are great at preventing alpha charges Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 07:16

so another plus for rwjf over ravagers!
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 07:23

Absolutly Smile
But the missiles still don't equal to 1 DL IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 07:30

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Absolutly Smile
But the missiles still don't equal to 1 DL IMO.
i think i tend more to 3 rw then 3 ravagers
-one more command point
-still 6 DL's
-still have 6 Blsters for anti-tank
-and more anti-infantry isnt bad in my book
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 07:48

Depends on your list, i take 4 Troupes and 3 Ravagers, ive never had my ravager die, my fliers always have.

It all depends on threat priority. Ppl are more scared of my 20 Troupes than Ravagers but more scared of my Bomber than both.

Also i need the 9 DL's over 6 and 3 missiles, i dont need AI at all, i need dedicated AT.

I play against Orcs too, but being Ynnari Harlequins, they dont want to charge me with 1-3 units turn 1.

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 07:55

yes, you play harley troops without fusions pistols then i guess
i play only dark elder and 2 Blastchons and 4x5 kabaltes with one blaster in venoms so i can afford only having 6 than 6 DL's
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 08:04

@amishprn86 wrote:

Also i need the 9 DL's over 6 and 3 missiles, i dont need AI at all, i need dedicated AT.
Same here. I have yet to see my missiles achieve something more than 1 wound at a time. Dark lances, on the other hand... last game i realised my opponent was shaking everytime i fired dark lances. Maybe it's due to the fact that i wrecked his Baneblade in 2 turns, i don't know...

In the end both Ravagers and RWJF are incredibly useful units. But i really can't convince myself to see the RW as superior to the ravager. 3 DL/dissie feels like darlight sunshines sunny

+ I don't think you can really replace Dark Lances with fusion pistols (or even raiders). For me DL are made to crack open the priority tanks in the first 2 turns, so that my army doesn't evaporate everytime they look at me (a Baneblade can reliably destroy 2-3 raiders per turn). Pistols (or blasters) just can't achieve that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 08:08

again i just think if you have blasters in you Kabal units and your archons you should be good to go with 6 DL's i think, im not sure tho
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 08:15

Depends on your local meta, then size (points) of the game, your opponent, your playstyle...
I regularly play against the Imperium (Astra Militarum, Grey Knights and Space Marines mostly) and i need those 36" shots because if the big tanks aren't down by turn 2 my game is lost.
But you might experience different needs/results, so i can only share my thoughts and hope they will apply to your games. In the end you're the one chosing what you field Smile

You're talking about 6 DLs for a 1500 game, i assume ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 08:22

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Depends on your local meta, then size (points) of the game, your opponent, your playstyle...
I regularly play against the Imperium (Astra Militarum, Grey Knights and Space Marines mostly) and i need those 36" shots because if the big tanks aren't down by turn 2 my game is lost.
But you might experience different needs/results, so i can only share my thoughts and hope they will apply to your games. In the end you're the one chosing what you field Smile

You're talking about 6 DLs for a 1500 game, i assume ?

yep and i have 6 blasters all in venoms
when i play i have to play against pretty much everything
Necrons,all kinds of spacies, cs spacies, orks, tau but in all of these armies they never play vehicle spam lists rather a more infantry/ heavy infantry units where when i debt have a lot of AI ill lose
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Sun Jul 30 2017, 08:27

Then may i suggest the almigthy Disintegrator cannons on your RWJF. They are as good as DL against tanks(well, they are a bit better vs T5 and T8, but a bit worse against T6 and 7), and they murder Terminators/Lych Guards/any heavy infantry. They cost a bit more though.

But indeed, if you local meta doesn't field a lot of tanks, there is no need to spam the hell out of DL, and blasters are a good choice. I'm also starting to understand why you want to spam Venoms so much Twisted Evil

In my meta, my SM buddy fields Land Raiders. My IG buddy spams Leman Russes and Baneblades. My T'au friends spams Hammerheads. The others are less Mecanized.
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