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 The Best DE Units

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aurynn
Incubi


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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 16:49

Coz scourges are tactical asset too, dropping onto an objective, can be PITA and detrimental to enemy movement. Squad of 5 behind enemy lines is not going to do much ofc, but that is correct for every 130 pts unit. Using 10+5+5 proved very worthwhile for me. It cannot be ignored and can deal some serious injury to most things that go after it due to being able to fall back and shoot.

Trueborn are limited in movement, but can arguably pack bigger firepower in tighter box. Not comparable IMO. Both belong in different lists.

Wyches are the same. One unit will not do much, but with certain dedication they can give the rest of your army a free reign on the battlefield. They work best supported by bombers as they can hit units in CC, tipping the fight in Wyches' favour where needed. Wyches are there as supplement against hordes and as tarpits.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 17:01

I don't think anything is god tier but I definitely wouldn't put Ravagers in over either of our Fliers; they are designed to operate very similarly with the only saving grace of a Ravager being that it can soak Overwatch if, for whatever wild reason, you've put it that close to the enemy. Outside of that perk there's not much reason in my mind to take one over a Hard To Hit Flier.

Here's my take on your list:

The God tier :
- VR bomber
- Jetfighter
The "you can't go wrong" tier :
- Ravager
- Kabalite warriors
- Raiders
- Scourges
- Incubi
-Mandrakes
-Venoms
The just okay but situational tier :
- Wyches
-beasts
-Wracks
The blegh tier :
- Grots
- Reavers
The "Oh god why" tier :
- Chronos
- hellions
-Talos
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 18:00

This helps.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:37

to summarize everything you guys said
-take flyers over ravangers?
-a kabalite/incubi army will work?
-anything wytch cult is only good in mass?
- all homunculus stuff isn't as good as main Kabalite Units?

! more questions
1-Raider or Venom?
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:49

Ravagers, flyers, and scourges with dark lances are all equivalent, it's a matter of personal preferences.

As for Raider/Venom : i'd say raiders for a start. They are more polyvalent, they serve anti tank, are resilient... Venom is great Anti infantry, but Kabalites are already anti infantry, so to start i would take raiders.

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:56

@Darkin wrote:
to summarize everything you guys said
-take flyers over ravangers?
-a kabalite/incubi army will work?
-anything wytch cult is only good in mass?
- all homunculus stuff isn't as good as main Kabalite Units?

! more questions
1-Raider or Venom?

I would take Fliers over Ravagers, and in fact I'm literally putting my Ravagers to bed now that I've got my hands on two more Fliers to replace them (it's also easier to score the extra CP for the Air Wing detachment than it is a Spearhead).

I haven't tried Wyches yet but I don't think they're very good even in numbers, but I'm going to try them.

I have tried Coven and found it really lacklustre compared to days of yore. So my Grotesques, Haemonculi and Wracks are hibernating for now.

I go with Venoms over Raiders myself, in part because I only own one Raider, but because I only own one Raider for a reason: I have tons of stuff that delivers darklight in droves, so I use my Venoms as additional and well needed all purpose infantry, bike, and monster killers.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:08

Indeed, Venoms are good if you have other ways of deliverying Darklight. But as a starter i think Raiders are better.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:20

@Mppqlmd wrote:
As for Raider/Venom : i'd say raiders for a start. They are more polyvalent...

Are they?  They seem fairly role limited as well.  Against most infantry they do poorly (1 dead model at most). Unless you mean disintegrator raiders, which do well against infantry but less so against vehicles.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:24

@Jimsolo wrote:


Are they?  They seem fairly role limited as well.  Against most infantry they do poorly (1 dead model at most). Unless you mean disintegrator raiders, which do well against infantry but less so against vehicles.
Dissies are very good against vehicles. Mathhammer says they are better than dark lances against everything but T6-7. And they are a blessing against Quantum Shielding, for all that's worth.
So yes, dissie raiders are more pricey, but more polyvalent than venoms.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:36

I'll believe you, but aren't most vehicles T6 or higher?
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:53

@Jimsolo wrote:
I'll believe you, but aren't most vehicles T6 or higher?
No need to believe me, here it is (this is without factoring saves. Agreed, PA-4 is better than PA-3) :
- T5 : the dissie deals 2 dmg, the DL deals 1.5555
- T6-7 : 1.2 dmg from the dissie, 1.5 from the DL
- T8+ : the dissie deals 1.2 dmg, the DL deals 1.1666. So the dissie is slightly better against a Land Raider !
(I don't have a PHD in statistics, so feel free to correct my maths Smile )
So the dissie really stands itself against vehicles, and it's unreasonably effective against infantry. There is a reason it's 10 pts more expensive Smile


Last edited by Mppqlmd on Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:58; edited 1 time in total
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:55

I really need to learn the difference between the quote button and the edit button...
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 21:09

Where do you put Trueborns in the rating?
I am thinking about running 2x blaster, 2x dark lance in a venom or just blasters. Very good mix to go after multi wounded infantry or take of last wounds of vehicles/monsters etc.

For ultimate BM you can go 4 blaster and 2 lances in a raider oO. lol!
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 21:13

@Lyceus wrote:
Where do you put Trueborns in the rating?
I am thinking about running 2x blaster, 2x dark lance in a venom or just blasters. Very good mix to go after multi wounded infantry or take of last wounds of vehicles/monsters etc.

I rate them a little lower but around the same capability as Scourges.

Blasters aren't what they used to be unfortunately so I don't run Blasterborn any more, with the ability to split fire I'd rather have a bunch of 50pt Kabalite squads with Blasters and let the Scourges, Ravagers and Fliers do the hard-core darklighting
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 21:16

Yep, with splitfire there is little reason to pay the tax for trueborns.
Regular Kabalites are better suited for Blasters, and Scourges are much better for Dark Lances (they can take 4). That, or vehicles/flyers.
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:11

How does therecent "nerf" to necrotoxin missiles from assault 6 to d6 affect the value of our fliers?
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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:24

@Darkin : No offense, I'm actually stunned haha, thank you very much if you want to use my color scheme, I'd be honored.
Following @Count Adhemar advice, I'm opening a new thread in painting to not clog this one.


Here's da link (to avoid double post). Hope it will be usefull.

Edit : didn't saw the link toward the image Sleep . . . Feel like I wasted half an hour.

Well, maybe it will help someone someday bounce

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Last edited by masamune on Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:41; edited 1 time in total
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:25

@Lyceus wrote:
How does therecent "nerf" to necrotoxin missiles from assault 6 to d6 affect the value of our fliers?
where does it say that?
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:35

The FAQ that came out the other day.

I don't think it hurts the razorwing much.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 23:03

@lament.config wrote:
The FAQ that came out the other day.

I don't think it hurts the razorwing much.
where can i find it?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 23:13

There are literally two threads on it on this forum alone.

Here's one.
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oddworx
Slave


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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:47

I have been having a lot of luck using 2X units of Blasterborne in a Tantalus. You put the tantalus in the middle of the table and the Blasters have range to just about everything. 8 Blaster shots will usually do a number on most vehicles. Then there is the 12 shots from the Tantalus. It is a bit expensive, but worth it!
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Kurdush
Hellion


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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Wed Jul 26 2017, 12:58

I'd rate the Incubi as situational (but I love them and always field them regardless) since they are a dedicated melee unit that prefer to slaughter armoured single wound models. Also, I think (from extremely limited experience) that Hellions are pretty ok. They have the mobility to grab objectives, shooting decent enough to pick off stragglers or soften up small units before a charge, and they are reasonably good at assaulting weak fliers (or basically anything multi wound with a save of 4 or worse). Sure, they will get shot to crap if targeted, but seeing that there are normally a lot of higher priority targets in the Drukhari army, I'd say you should be able to get some use of them. Plus, they are very cool...
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Wed Jul 26 2017, 14:12

If you have a board composed of flyers and transports the Hellions just become an easy place to sink low S shots into, and given how fragile they won't even draw away that much fire. They're just too expensive, maybe deep strike would make them worth taking.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Wed Jul 26 2017, 16:53

They do not need deep strike, they need a slight preice decrease.
There are quite viable in a non vehicle based army though (with wyches, beasts, foot kabalites, scourges etc) because there are just to many things that people need to target and you still move roughly 10inch with most units so half his normal troop/anti infantry shots should be hard pressed to shoot at your units.
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