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Darkin
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PostSubject: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 10:50

Hey, Beginner Dark Eldar player here.
do you guys have any like "tier list" of the Dark Eldar Units
would really appreciate that!
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 11:23

The God tier :
- VR bomber
- Ravagers
The "you can't go wrong" tier :
- RW jetfighter
- Kabalite warriors
- Raiders
- Scourges
- Incubi
The very good but situational tier :
- Mandrakes
- Wracks
- Maybe clawed fiends/grotesques
- Venoms
The kinda good tier :
- Wyches
- Hellions
- Talos
The "Oh god why" tier :
- Chronos
- Reavers
- RW flocks

Haven't tested Khymeras, so can't judge for them.
This is of course a very personal ranking.

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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 11:48

Razorwings flocks are a decent unit.
It can absorb lots of firepower, prevent deepstriking, doesn't cost much and can do some damage..

Same goes for Reavers and characters assassination, and map control.

Anyway, if you want to buy a new army, first of all think about what kinda of army you want..
- to play ?
- to collect ?

Classic kabalite army ? Kabalites warriors, archon.
Melee oriented army ? Wyches, succubus and beasts
Resilient, slower and disgusting ? Go for haemies, wracks, talos

Whatever you pick, raiders, ravagers (& planes) will always be usefull.


Every unit in great in his own way, it's just specific to the mission they have to do, and sadly to the current rules..
Don't be an opportunist, collect what you like ; you'll always find a way to make it work Wink

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:05

@masamune wrote:
Razorwings flocks are a decent unit.
It can absorb lots of firepower, prevent deepstriking, doesn't cost much and can do some damage..

Same goes for Reavers and characters assassination, and map control.

Anyway, if you want to buy a new army, first of all think about what kinda of army you want..
- to play ?
- to collect ?

Classic kabalite army ? Kabalites warriors, archon.
Melee oriented army ? Wyches, succubus and beasts
Resilient, slower and disgusting ? Go for haemies, wracks, talos

Whatever you pick, raiders, ravagers (& planes) will always be usefull.


Every unit in great in his own way, it's just specific to the mission they have to do, and sadly to the current rules..
Don't be an opportunist, collect what you like ; you'll always find a way to make it work Wink

I'll want go for an kabalite/incubi with maybe scourges and vehicles mix, would that work?
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:09

@Darkin wrote:

I'll want go for an kabalite/incubi with maybe scourges and vehicles mix, would that work?

Yes. Incubi and kabalites are great Anti infantry (Incubi for elite, kabalite to shoot down the mob and the monsters), in vehicles they are fast and protected from shootings. Your raiders are good at shooting down tanks with dark lances and disintegrator cannons, with the help of ravagers. Scourges can help at what you want, with anti infantry from the shardcarbine, or anti tank from Dark lance/blaster.
Add in a plane for flavor, and you got yourself a very nicely working kabal Smile
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:11

@Mppqlmd wrote:
@Darkin wrote:

I'll want go for an kabalite/incubi with maybe scourges and vehicles mix, would that work?

Yes. Incubi and kabalites are great Anti infantry (Incubi for elite, kabalite to shoot down the mob and the monsters), in vehicles they are fast and protected from shootings. Your raiders are good at shooting down tanks with dark lances and disintegrator cannons, with the help of ravagers. Scourges can help at what you want, with anti infantry from the shardcarbine, or anti tank from Dark lance/blaster.
Add in a plane for flavor, and you got yourself a very nicely working kabal Smile
Perfect, thanks for the help!
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:16

@Darkin wrote:

Perfect, thanks for the help!
But yeah, that was just a little information of how a kabal themed army is working. The masamume advice is very precious : buy and paint what you enjoy, and make your army personal. If you buy a unit coz it's good, you'll be sorry with the next meta change. If you buy it because you love it, you'll never be sorry.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:34

@Mppqlmd wrote:
@Darkin wrote:

Perfect, thanks for the help!
But yeah, that was just a little information of how a kabal themed army is working. The masamume advice is very precious : buy and paint what you enjoy, and make your army personal. If you buy a unit coz it's good, you'll be sorry with the next meta change. If you buy it because you love it, you'll never be sorry.
that's why i want to play incubi their models are great
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:36

@Mppqlmd wrote:
@Darkin wrote:

Perfect, thanks for the help!
But yeah, that was just a little information of how a kabal themed army is working. The masamume advice is very precious : buy and paint what you enjoy, and make your army personal. If you buy a unit coz it's good, you'll be sorry with the next meta change. If you buy it because you love it, you'll never be sorry.
that's why i want to play incubi their models are great
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:47

@Darkin wrote:

that's why i want to play incubi their models are great
Indeed they are Smile
Also, if i can recommend you one thing to start with : check the big boxes. Start collecting is Archon, 3 Reavers, 1 raider, 10 kabalite for 65 euros. Skysplinter is 1 raider and 10 kabalites for 42,5 (i think). Gangs of commoragh is 10 hellions and 6 reavers for 40ish. All those are a great place to start : many models to start playing ASAP and then expand from what you love.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:00

for now i just bought 20 kabalites and an archon
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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:09

Are Reavers that bad there "ohh god why"tier

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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:12

@Darkin take care for incubi, they are in finecast (more malleable plastic, for more details).

Finecast tends to bend, comes with holes due to air bubbles.
In order to counter both :
- bending : don't try to re-bend it with your bare hands, especially with finecast you'll only broke them. You'd rather use a hair dryer, on minimal heat, then gently heat the plastic when it becomes malleable, straighten it and let it cool.
WE WANT STRAIGHT SWORDS FOR INCUBES AND NOT TOYS 'R US, GOD DAMMIT !

- Air bubbles : Don't undercoat your models as soon as you got them. Use green stuff. There's a really  clean tutorial by official GW.
I'm not gonna lie, it takes time and patience. Do several layers, let each layer dry for at least 2 hours (preferably 4-6, or a whole night). But the result is worth it, especially with such beautiful miniatures as the incubi.

- Last but not least, make proper casing for them. If you are using the classic GW foam sheets, dont pack them in 1 black. Cut a wall a sore them in a 2 blocks space. Or they'll bend on the long term.

(I prefer warn you, as I was really disapointed when i got mines..  Evil or Very Mad )


If you're a new painter/collector, I'd recommand starting with 10x kabalite warriors first to get the basic, before going on to finecast.
And as Minsc @Mppqlmd mentionned it, check out the starter's box, often more accessible (I really recommand Start collecting).


@Darkin : Get a raider or 2, It really will help them survive. I've playde foot kab warriors for several years, and raiders are just insta buyers.
@Bedlam55 : They were pretty nerfed from the last edition. Now they work differently, they are more specialized and not the all around wreckers they used to be..

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lmrz
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:14

@Mppqlmd wrote:
@Darkin wrote:

that's why i want to play incubi their models are great
Indeed they are Smile
Also, if i can recommend you one thing to start with : check the big boxes. Start collecting is Archon, 3 Reavers, 1 raider, 10 kabalite for 65 euros. Skysplinter is 1 raider and 10 kabalites for 42,5 (i think). Gangs of commoragh is 10 hellions and 6 reavers for 40ish. All those are a great place to start : many models to start playing ASAP and then expand from what you love.

I agree with this - I've picked up two Start Collecting Sets and a Sky Splinter to get new raiders and new kabalites. Great value (especially if you get them from a third party seller(uk)).

I've not used the Hellions often but getting plenty bikes and hellions in Gangs of Commorragh was cool too.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:16

With the current state of Reavers, and the fact that Darkin already has an archon, i think the Kabalite Skysplinter would be great for him (1 raider, 10 kabalites). But that doesn't mean your kabalites are wasted : venoms are another great way to field them Smile

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:17

@lmrz wrote:

I agree with this - I've picked up two Start Collecting Sets and a Sky Splinter to get new raiders and new kabalites. Great value (especially if you get them from a third party seller(uk)).

I've not used the Hellions often but getting plenty bikes and hellions in Gangs of Commorragh was cool too.

In my first 4 months i bought 2 start collecting and a Gangs of Comm. Having 12 reavers was so great in 7th edition Very Happy Now they feel really lackluster.

Edit : sorry 'bout the double post, dammit.
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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:22

Is the issues with reavers is there points cost?

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:30

@Bedlam55 wrote:
Is the issues with reavers is there points cost?
Yep. They doubled in cost, because they are 2 wounds. But having 2 wounds doesn't increase your dmg potential.
Also calltrops are nowhere near what they were (they were 1D6 auto hits S6 rending on charge). Also bladevanes used to deal 1 auto hit S4 rending per reaver on charge.
Also the heatlance wasn't so miserable.
Everything that made them great is now okayish, and overcosted.
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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:45

The codex should fix them (I hope) but If they where say somewhere between 22 and 25 points would you be more inclined to use them?

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:49

@Bedlam55 wrote:
The codex should fix them (I hope) but If they where say somewhere between 22 and 25 points would you be more inclined to use them?
Yep, but only as small units aiming to distract the enemy and land a few mortal wounds here and there.
If the heatlance changes, maybe they will come back as gun platforms.
But the old Calltrops will never come back. In 7th edition i ran 2 squads of 6 and they were my main AT. 2d6 S6 rending hits at the rear of a vehicle could wreck anything that wasn't a land raider (and noone played land raiders back then). They were the kings of the codex.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 14:13

Sadly Reavers are overcosted now. I say sadly, as I have 24 of them! They don't really have a use in 8e. They aren't tough enough to absorb firepower, deadly enough to win combats or cheap enough to be objective grabbers.

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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 14:26

thanks for the many tips guys,
@masamune, ill try to use green stuff, never used it before and no I'm not a professional painter but I still have a question to you
I want to go for this color scheme in the picture, what paints did this person use ( I really like it so I want to copy it 1:1 as best as i can ( idk if that a dick move?))


https://servimg.com/view/19742326/3
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 14:36

I suggest you ask in the painting and modelling section of the forum. You're likely to get some pretty helpful suggestions there.

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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 14:44

I won't lie, I've been picking the razorwing jetfighter over ravagers. They cost the same if they're kitted with lances. They have nearly identical stat profiles. The razorwing does have 1 less lance but I think the twin rifle and missiles make up for it since he also gives enemies -1 to hit him. They can also set up in the back corner of your field to avoid enemy firepower in the first turn and then cross to the opposite end to hit all those annoying units your opponents hid in his backfield.

I used incubi a couple times too but I was disappointed in them and ended up cutting them from my list. Granted I was rolling poorly every time I got them into a combat, but for now I'm finding tournaments are very vehicle heavy and the more lances and shooting the better.
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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: The Best DE Units   Tue Jul 25 2017, 16:37

Hmmm I agree with the pain engines not being very good, as well as the Reavers sadly. But why are the Scourges so high up? Suicide heat lance squads are super expensive and plinking away with Dark Lances is something Trueborn can do, too.

Oh, and what about Grots?
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