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 L'il bit of list help from the community?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 01:45

Here's the challenge: looking to build a 2000 pt list for a tournament in September.  

Here's what I have available:

4 Haemonculi (all weapon options available)
60 Wracks (all weapon options available)
17 Grotesques
1 Cronos
Urien Rakarth
1 Talos (Splinter Cannons)
8 Talos/Cronos (magnetized for any loadout) ((Could also be Wraithlords))
5 Raiders (weapons magnetized, can be any config)
3 Ravagers (any config, can have guns removed to be additional Raiders)
7 Venoms
1 Razorwing Jetfighter
1 Voidraven Bomber
1 Reaper
2 Archons (any config)
1 Succubus (glaive)
3 Razorwing Flocks
3 Clawed Fiends
8 Khymerae
Lelith Hesperax
10 Wyches (any weapon viable)
40-50 Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn (any weapon config available)
20 Incubi
36 Hellions/Beastmasters
15 Scourges (4 Heat Lance, 4 Haywire Blaster)
10 Storm Guardians
14 Guardians
10 Dire Avengers
7 Warlocks
2 Farseers
Eldrad Ulthran
1 Autarch on foot
5 Wraithguard (Wraithcannons)
6 Howling Banshees
12 Fire Dragons (2 Exarchs)
5 Dark Reapers (1 Exarch)
1 Crimson Hunter/Hemlock Wraithfighter
36 Reaver/Windrider/Shining Spear/Farseer Skyrunner/Warlock Skyrunner jetbikes (all magnetized for maximum weapon effeciency)
Yvraine

I'd ideally like to go Ynnari, but I'm open for other suggestions.  I would vastly prefer not to buy anything new, but I will if I simply have to.  (No more than a single new unit, though.)


Even if you don't have a list idea, any notion of where to start would be lovely.  I'm woefully behind competitively these days, and I'm just swamped with work.  Any ideas would be welcome.

Edit: This is an ITC tournament, so three detachments max, only two of the same kind of detachment.

Edit again: Found more shtuff.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 02:31

Off the cuff, spam Warriors as your chaff. Use scatbikes in big squads in your backfield next to a footslogging Autarch for rerolls and a Warlock for conceal. Use a Farseer for Doom on the primary scatbike target. Bring a Hemlock and Reaper because why the hell not. Bring Yvraine for double-scatbike-shooting and the Yncarne if you have one. This all fits in a single Ynnari detachment.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 14:04

^pretty darn good.

I'll rally the troops and see what they think. Otherwise I'd say it comes down to your play style and what you're more comfortable with.

Edit: do the Ynnari rules apply to fliers as well? And since Eldar and DE count as ynnari, could you run your 3 flyers as a flyer detachment or whatever it's called?
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 16:16

Pretty sure they do, but no strength from death.

Teenage angst seems to know his stuff, id take that advice.

Venoms are pretty good, but raiders with dark lances would benefit you a lot, I don't see a lot of anti armour in there

I run kabalites standard. Upgrades aren't worth it IMO

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 21:13

You want your kabalites to have an agonizer. 4 points and they can suddenly threaten things in close combat.

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 00:02

This may be really basic for a tournament but, I would try something to the effect of two archons with blasters and agonizers in venoms. Fill out troops with the rest of your venoms and warriors with a blaster in each. Take a flyer wing with two voidraven and one razorwing. Any leftover points goes to ravagers with your preference of loadout.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 01:49

I don't have two Voidravens, unfortunately.


Tried a spammy list today. 6 warrior squads, 3 incubi squads, 3 hellions squads, 3 scatpacks, 3 ravagers, 2 warlocks, and Yvraine. Plus a banshee squad.

Worst loss I've ever suffered since my very first game with Dark Eldar. It was horrendous. Supremely awful.

I hate drawing conclusions from a single game, but without WAY more warriors than I have, I don't think Warrior spam on its own works.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 01:50

Jimsolo wrote:
Here's the challenge: looking to build a 2000 pt list for a tournament in September

Are there any lists that 1. You're expecting to see and 2. are scared of?

Because I've always thought that the best way is to use the Ynnari rules to sacrifice small units to give bigger, scarier units extra turns/shooting. Maybe you bring an Archon court or something, try to drop some big guns near the smaller units and let loose the dark light. Scourges maybe? Do we know if units removed from morale can also trigger the ability?

Did you play Ynnari or DE?
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 12:14

What are you thinking to avoid slay the warlord? Yvraine can tank if the Visarch is close by..or maybe that was 7th.. That's still points spent on a not death star. I'm not about Ynnari right now, as I think DE are more solid in a basic 5th edition kabal raid style spam list (and I like it). Ignore all the flavor and be cold, calculated, and brutal. It's not spam it's organized.

Urien with Lelith are a decent combo near a squad of wracks or grotesques. I wouldn't play them aggressively and would prefer to force the other player to have to push to get them in combat.

Grotesques got hit a bit hard with the nerf hammer in 8th and I have not played them, as I think without rampage, they will get over taken by anything other than a small squad of cultist. Easily mulched by Wulfen or other dedicated CC units. Still, the abominations of the various Covens have a place. The damage output seems mediocre at best but, maybe as a bunker they work.  

Are you wanting a screen? I don't think any Eldar faction can run a small enough force to count on going first.

Edit: I wouldn't take scatbikes at all
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 13:09

To avoid slay? Very little. Don't let my Warlord get in front is the basic plan.

The time of Grots is over, I feel. Too little damage and not tough enough anymore. Hopefully the next codex changes that.

I agree--scatbikes are underwhelming now.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 15:50

Dark Reapers should be your must have unit, especially buffed with Word of Phoenix. Shining spears are cool on paper, but i didn't test them.

Wraithguard and Fire dragons work cool as Ynnari as well - came close, blasted a tank, got the 2nd shot. But if you can choose only one heavy infantry unit in you roster - take Dark reapers only.

As a troop choice I'd recommend to take several 5 man Kabalite squad with blaster on foot, marching through the battlefield close to each other.
I also had fantastic results with 20 wyches in 2 raiders supported by the Yncarne. They made soulburst cascades each turn, wiping out entire armies.

And if you can afford one unit you don't have right now - take the Yncarne. When you set it up in your roster, you will understand what the Strategic influence means. You opponents will be afraid to kill your units in order not to summon her and will be afraid to die. She is not on the table yet but still makes havoc.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 16:40

I just had a test game doing NOVA missions where 15 Scatbikes murdered a 70 wound deep pack of horrors in 2 turns. That's with the 4++ AND -1 TO hit from character buffs. If you think Scatbikes are bad now you have not used them properly.

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 16:49

TeenageAngst wrote:
I just had a test game doing NOVA missions where 15 Scatbikes murdered a 70 wound deep pack of horrors in 2 turns. That's with the 4++ AND -1 TO hit from character buffs. If you think Scatbikes are bad now you have not used them properly.

So 120 shots inflicted 70 wounds on a unit with a 4++ save? Even ignoring having to roll to hit and to wound that's still good rolling. Taking into account the to hit (4+) and to wound (3+) I think this falls square into the category of 'statistical outlier' and can't really be taken as evidence of Scatbikes being good, bad or ugly.

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 16:52

They wound on a 2+ since horrors are T3

Also he let the unit fail it's morale after suffering too many casualties to be useful.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 16:57

Even on a 2+ it was still absurdly good dice.

I wasn't aware you could choose to fail a morale test, or is that a special daemonic thing?

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 17:17

MEQ in cover has been what I've encountered as the nearly impossible counter.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 18:48

Quote :
I wasn't aware you could choose to fail a morale test, or is that a special daemonic thing?

It just kinda happens when you take 20 casualties from being shot by 80-100 strength 6 shots in one turn (from soulbursts off dead warriors). Those casualties pile up, and after 2 turns he realized his screen wasn't worth blowing command points on anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:09

So instead of saying "he chose not to pass" It's that he chose to not auto-pass with the 2 command point stratagem?

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:11

I get you. The morale test is going to be failed from casualties, so "letting it fail" is just not spending CP for the autopass.


I'm thinking of going with a core of 3 Ravagers (or 2 Ravagers and a Reaper), plus four squads of Incubi (either in two raiders or four venoms). Nothing locked in beyond that, though.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:29

So no Scatbikes? Ok...

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:44

I'm expecting to see a lot of power armor fielded, so I don't think the Scatbikes are going to perform too excellently. I've already had a few games with them, and their wound output getting worse, going up against a 2+ save, means they aren't as useful against MEQ as once they were.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Wed Jul 26 2017, 01:24

My knee jerk reaction to MEQ in cover is either something with good AP to ignore the cover or to go for melee, or to get something that has higher statistics of causing wounds. Like how flamers auto hit, etc.

Good AP, maybe dissies? It'll still take a quite a number to get the results you'd want though...

Melee? Harlies, Incubi, something Aeldari, something ynnari, your pick.

Auto hits? Liquifiers? yuck.

Take what you're comfy with.

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Wed Jul 26 2017, 14:10

Thinking about going with:

Farseer Skyrunner 177
Incubi 90
Incubi 90
Incubi 90
Incubi 90
Warriors (blaster) 50
Warriors (blaster) 50
Warriors (blaster) 50
Warriors (blaster) 50
Raider (Dissie) 125
Raider (Dissie) 125
Raider (Dissie) 125
Raider (Dissie) 125
Ravager (Dissie) 185
Ravager (Dissie) 185
Reaper (150)

Which leaves me with 237 pts to spend. I could drop 37 pts on a Warlock (cheapest HQ, I think) to get me into a detachment, and then have 200 pts left over. Maybe a flyer? Not sure. Not sold on the Farseer, either.
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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Wed Jul 26 2017, 15:25

Maybe a couple of mandrakes for DS & mortal wounds ?

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PostSubject: Re: L'il bit of list help from the community?   Wed Jul 26 2017, 15:34

Oooh. I'll be very interested in how those raiders do with a mix of Incubi and warriors. Do you plan on having your raiders charge in and lock stuff in combat. Hopefully survive the 2 rounds of fighting, disembark your all your troops and fall back with the raider to have it then go lock something else in combat? Preferably 7" nearby?

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