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 [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray

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Vanguard
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PostSubject: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Thu Jul 20 2017, 14:29

Hey guys!

I'm returning to 40k after a good 10+ year absence and I'm super excited to get collecting DE. I'm working up some kind of provisional army lists but would love to get your thoughts.

A couple of points that guide my thinking:
I love wyches, so want to include them
Hyper mobility seems ideal, but I'm unsure if it's points-efficient at 500?
I want my force to be fun, not just optimised

HQ:
Succubus w/blast pistol

Troops:
8x wyches w/ agoniser & raider

2x:
5x kabalite warriors & venom

Total 495pts or so.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts...or even entirely different suggestions of fun 500pt builds!


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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Thu Jul 20 2017, 14:52

The main damage source from wyches are special weapons : agonizer, and 3 hydra gauntlets. So you need those 3 gauntlets Smile if you have to, drop the pistol on the succubus.

(I worked a bit on the problem of making extra hydra gauntlets out of the wyches box, i'll post pictures someday)
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 07:32

problem is with 3 gauntlets he needs a unit of 10 and that is to much points and then the succubus cannot join the raider anymore.
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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 11:17

Succubus will run after the raider with the +2" movement drug :DD

Another option is to run 2x5 wyches in a raider, with 2x agoniser & 2x hydra gauntlet.

@Mppqlmd Can't wait to see that, tag me in if you create this tutorial. I don't wanna pay ~3-4€ for lonely arms on auctions websites, only to get a somehow wysiwyg. + hydra gauntlets looks fantastic on models, I wish they were more than one in each box.

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Vanguard
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 13:36

Hey guys, thanks for the awesome feedback.

Take your points on maximising the wyches' damage output. It would be interesting to weight the army more towards them with 10 but yeah, that succubus would be pretty lonely!

Sounds like it's not too far off being workable though so I'm probably gonna start the long slog of buying some models and building up Smile
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 17:53

I lack the camera needed to take pictures of my models ftm...
What i did was transform the super useful razorflails : i cut the very head of the flail, to act like the head of the gauntlet. I then cut the razorflail in halve (length wise) and select a small part from it, and glue the 2 sides of the razorflail on his side of the now empty hand. The result looks somewhat like a chain fist, which is close enough to a hydra gauntlet for me Smile
I kept a Shardnet and Impaler, though, since i really hope the Shardnet is going to give a special rule in the codex... (and it looks so cool).

I'll do it again soon, and take pictures of the steps.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 19:56

I tend to disagree with Mppqlmd. The blast pistol will inflict a lot more damage output than any wych cult weapon. Take 1 for your succubus and 1 for your hekatrix.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 21:20

@dumpeal wrote:
I tend to disagree with Mppqlmd. The blast pistol will inflict a lot more damage output than any wych cult weapon. Take 1 for your succubus and 1 for your hekatrix.

Do you prefer 0.88% of a S8, PA-4, D3 dmg hit, or
15 S3, rerollable to wound, PA-1, D1 hits ? (That's the dps of 3 hydra gauntlets wyches in one full turn).
Hydra gauntlet is even superior against vehicles, and vastly superior against troops.

The only advantage of the pistol is 6". Let's be honest. If you're at 6" with wyches, you're going to charge anyway.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 22:08

And that you can shoot the pistols in the shooting phase even if the wyches are in cc ... That can help thin out whatever they are fighting.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 23:00

But you can't shoot in the enemy shooting phase. While cc weapons attack 2 times per turn : once during your turn, once during the enemy turn. Considering that, and the fact that the pistol is only 1 shot, opposed to 9 attacks (*2, so 18) for the special weapons, the choice is clear.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Fri Jul 21 2017, 23:20

Aye I get that, but it is nice to have a weapon that can help put wounds on a tougher target that is within 6 inches of the wyches such as a tank or terminators or whatnot.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Sat Jul 22 2017, 12:54

Yeah, there are some situations where a blast pistol can help you deal with tough targets, but it's very unreliable, and situational. Hydra gauntlets are good against everything, because they bring the only thing that matters in 8th edition : weigh of dice, and rerolls.
Seriously, you have to shoot 3 turns at a tank to wound it once with a blast pistol/blaster (with BS 3+).

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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Sat Jul 22 2017, 14:44

Keeping to your theme of Wyches etc..

499 Patrol

HQ: Succubuss with Blast Pistol, +1 Str Drug

Troop:
5x Wyches with Hekatarix with Blast Pistol and Hekatari blade, one Hydra Gauntlet, + 1 Attack Drug

Elite:
5 x True born, 4 blasters, blast pistol on Dracon

Fast Attack
5 x Hellions, Helliarch with Agoniser, + 2 Move Drug

Raider with Shock Prow and Lance

Wyches and True Born go in the Raider. Succubus Foot slogs it up the field. Being a character, and at this small a point value, she should be pretty well screned to be able and hit the front line turn 2. Which is when your wyches will be hitting anyways.

Hellions Harrass / tie up units potentially with a first turn charge, while True born and the Raider can hunt armor and tough infantry. Gives decent mobility, and pretty good all-round list.
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Sun Jul 23 2017, 19:59

@Faitherun wrote:
Keeping to your theme of Wyches etc..

Hellions Harrass / tie up units potentially with a first turn charge, while True born and the Raider can hunt armor and tough infantry. Gives decent mobility, and pretty good all-round list.

I hadn't even really considered hellions actually. I'm getting a vibe that they're looking like better value than reavers at the moment as well?
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: [500] DE virgin rejoining the 40k fray   Sun Jul 23 2017, 21:58

@Vanguard wrote:
@Faitherun wrote:
Keeping to your theme of Wyches etc..

Hellions Harrass / tie up units potentially with a first turn charge, while True born and the Raider can hunt armor and tough infantry. Gives decent mobility, and pretty good all-round list.

I hadn't even really considered hellions actually. I'm getting a vibe that they're looking like better value than reavers at the moment as well?

That has been my (albeit limited) experience.

Hellions are fragile, but I love them as a harassment force and Hellions have a Damage 2 melee weapons which gives them some more tactical flexibility in taking care of HQ's or a primaris marine etc.

Point wise 5 hellions is about equal to 3 reavers - so you are looking at more shoots and more attacks swinging from the hellions.

TBH, reavers will give you 6 wounds to the 5 of the hellions, and reavers can take a blaster for anti-armor duty. But I prefer my anti armor coming from elsewhere and my hellions as mop-up / distraction
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