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 What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?

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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Sun Jul 23 2017, 20:50

#1 Yes. The post 7th ed dysphoria still lingers. But one thing is certain. Whatever we get, we are going to complain about it.

#3 Only marginally. Not a huge PFP fan myself, but it sure beats pain tokens.

#4 He IS buffing warriors. It is just that the buff is laughable. Watch out for my new screenplay:
 "Archon. The legend of the phantom buff."

#5 If you don't like the fluffy rules they might as well be synonyms. As you say, if the buff is as weak as our archons, then you won't have much reason to clump up. If he gets a buff, say, that only comes in to play for one turn every five games, I'd rather he be 5 pts cheaper with no buffs.

#6 I certainly don't want him to get re-roll 1s like every other HQ in the galaxy. If he is to have a LD buff bubble it should be stronger. Like re-rolls or roll three pick he lowest. As it is now, if you surround him with two units of 10 warriors, and the stars align, you'll be lucky to save 2 kabalites pr game.
The style of buffs I want him to have could be something like:  
"The inner circle" The archon brings along a squad of his least distrusted warriors. Pick one unit with the kabal keyword and give them one of the following : FNP 5+ OR Poison 3+ OR +1 save OR +1 BS OR a motherflipping grenade FFS! OR +1 Charisma OR pay one black mana to give this unit swampwalk until the end of your turn. You know. Useful stuff. Smile


Last edited by Scrz on Sun Jul 23 2017, 20:52; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spellz)
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Sun Jul 23 2017, 21:56

@Scrz wrote:
#1 Yes. The post 7th ed dysphoria still lingers. But one thing is certain. Whatever we get, we are going to complain about it.

Fair point.

@Scrz wrote:
#3 Only marginally. Not a huge PFP fan myself, but it sure beats pain tokens.

Well, I think pain tokens are more fun than Power from Patience (and a revised system could be interesting).

But yeah, the current PfP is probably stronger than 5th's PfP.

@Scrz wrote:

#4 He IS buffing warriors. It is just that the buff is laughable. Watch out for my new screenplay:
 "Archon. The legend of the phantom buff."

lol!

@Scrz wrote:

The style of buffs I want him to have could be something like:  
"The inner circle" The archon brings along a squad of his least distrusted warriors. Pick one unit with the kabal keyword and give them one of the following : FNP 5+ OR Poison 3+ OR +1 save OR +1 BS OR a motherflipping grenade FFS! OR +1 Charisma OR pay one black mana to give this unit swampwalk until the end of your turn. You know. Useful stuff. Smile

I actually really like that idea (I'd suggest that the Archon get the same buff). This would also be a great incentive to bring multiple HQs for detachments that require them.

Of course, if we did get that, you know that GW would take it away in 9th and give it to Eldar or SMs instead. Wink
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theredone85
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Sun Jul 23 2017, 22:57

would love to see poison CCW for wyches. its not that much of a stretch, 4's for everything cept vehicles etc. ive never understood why wyches have been so week for a dedicated CC unit.

or at barest minimum 4++ dodge extends to the overwatch phase as well as CC.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Sun Jul 23 2017, 23:02

@theredone85 wrote:
would love to see poison CCW for wyches. its not that much of a stretch, 4's for everything cept vehicles etc. ive never understood why wyches have been so week for a dedicated CC unit.

or at barest minimum 4++ dodge extends to the overwatch phase as well as CC.

Of course... but in that case why would anybody bother with Wracks?

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theredone85
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Sun Jul 23 2017, 23:21

T4 troops
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Sun Jul 23 2017, 23:37

IMO Wyches should stay at S3 no poison, but have -1 AP on every weapon and not only special weapons. That way they would stay different from Wracks (and still be very different from Incubi)
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 03:50

I kinda want 8th Ed. DE Witch Elves for DE Wyches Razz

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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 05:29

I really want wyches to be able to dodge pistols in cc, literally the only thing they need to be viable. Brides are a joke though, they need to be like trueborn and get more weapon options ...
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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 06:27

@theredone85 wrote:
T4 troops

You mean wracks or wyches with Painbringer right?

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 07:12

Things I want from the Codex:
1. A Universal return to our Ld8 base with Ld9 being for Sybarites, Solarites, Hekatarii and such. Perhaps Wracks and Grots are Ld7, with Acothysts having Ld8.

2. The Shredder is inferior and unviable in a Kabalite Unit. It needs a more reliable output of shots (just make it Assault 2) and an AP value. Other options include giving it Assault 3 and a Rending equivalent.

3. Points drops or major buffs for the Court. They're all WAY overpriced and the Ur-Ghul is still utterly purposeless.

4. Coven units gaining a way to buff Innured to Suffering rolls. Cronos giving a 12" Aura of +1 to ItS rolls for each unsaved Wound it inflicts, Grots and Taloii giving 6" Aura of +1 to ItS rolls for each model they slay in CC. Wracks giving a 6" Aura of +1 to ItS rolls for each Unit they slay in Close Combat. Haemis giving a flat 6" Aura of +1 to ItS rolls, alongside their Coven buff. Urien either doing the same at 12", or a +2 at 6".

5. Stackable buffs. Each HQ having a "Drukhari Buff" and then a "Faction" buff. i.e. Haemis give +1T to Coven, and +1 on ItS to Drukhari. Succubi give reroll 1's to Wound to Cult and Reroll 1's to Hit to Drukhari (in Fight Phase). Archon gives same as Succubi except in Shooting Phase (Applies to models in the same transport as them).

6. Cult units getting a major reworking. They still aren't viable over some high quality dakka.

Dodge applying throughout the entire Assault Phase and can be taken against any shooting attack mad by an opponent within 1" of the Model.

Wyches able to take 1 Cult Weapon for every 5 models, and an extra 1 for every 10 models.  i.e. 5 Wyches= 1 CW, 10 Wyches= (2+1)=3 CW, 15 Wyches=4 CW, 20 Wyches=6 CW
Bloodbrides able to take 4 Cult Weapons for every 5 models.  Unit size: 5-10.

Wych Knives being made AP-1.

Wych Knives, Razorflails and Hydra Gauntlets losing their "can make an extra attack with this weapon" rule and replaced with Cult Units having the following Attack stats:

Base Wyches: 2 Attacks
Hekatrix and Bloodbrides: 3 Attacks
Syren: 4 Attacks
Succubus: 5 Attacks
Lelith: 5 Attacks.  +1 per enemy model within 2" of her.

Shardnet and Impaler (or just Shardnet (Hair) in Lelith's Case) confers a +1 modifier to our "No Escape" ability alongside the AP-1, Dmg2 statline.

Razorflails maybe replace "reroll to Hit" (Which is utterly inferior to Hydra Gauntlets as hitting the opponent is not the problem Wyches have) with AP-2/ a Rending equivalent.  "A hit roll of 6+ automatically Wounds and is resolved at AP-2."  Or similar.

Hydra Gauntlets keep the reroll to Wound and AP-1. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

7. A bleeding relics list and mobility options for our HQ's. (Wings, Skyboards, Bikes, anti-grav crystals or a Worm-Swarm in the case of Haemis).

8. Talos getting an AP-3 weapon option. Grotesques getting reroll-to-Wound back on their Gauntlets when attacking sans-Gauntlet would yield an equal or better Wound roll.

9. Transports being able to Deepstrike/ reserves deploy again. We sneak in, take what we want and leave. Where is our null-deployment option!?!

Things we're probably going to get from the Codex:

1. Razorwings cost 11 Points instead of 7.

2. Stinger Pistol error is replaced with a typo in the No Escape rule that results in Wyches being unable to Fall Back, rather than the Enemy.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 07:13

@Bedlam55 wrote:
@theredone85 wrote:
T4 troops

You mean wracks or wyches with Painbringer right?

T5 Troops with a Haemi nearby.

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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 07:43

@Ikol wrote:
Things I want from the Codex:

6. Cult units getting a major reworking.  They still aren't viable over some high quality dakka.

Dodge applying throughout the entire Assault Phase and can be taken against any shooting attack mad by an opponent within 1" of the Model.

Wyches able to take 1 Cult Weapon for every 5 models, and an extra 1 for every 10 models.  i.e. 5 Wyches= 1 CW, 10 Wyches= (2+1)=3 CW, 15 Wyches=4 CW, 20 Wyches=6 CW
Bloodbrides able to take 4 Cult Weapons for every 5 models.  Unit size: 5-10.

Wych Knives being made AP-1.

Wych Knives, Razorflails and Hydra Gauntlets losing their "can make an extra attack with this weapon" rule and replaced with Cult Units having the following Attack stats:

Base Wyches: 2 Attacks
Hekatrix and Bloodbrides: 3 Attacks
Syren: 4 Attacks
Succubus: 5 Attacks
Lelith: 5 Attacks.  +1 per enemy model within 2" of her.

Shardnet and Impaler (or just Shardnet (Hair) in Lelith's Case) confers a +1 modifier to our "No Escape" ability alongside the AP-1, Dmg2 statline.

Razorflails maybe replace "reroll to Hit" (Which is utterly inferior to Hydra Gauntlets as hitting the opponent is not the problem Wyches have) with AP-2/ a Rending equivalent.  "A hit roll of 6+ automatically Wounds and is resolved at AP-2."  Or similar.

Hydra Gauntlets keep the reroll to Wound and AP-1.  Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Things we're probably going to get from the Codex:

1. Razorwings cost 11 Points instead of 7.

2. Stinger Pistol error is replaced with a typo in the No Escape rule that results in Wyches being unable to Fall Back, rather than the Enemy.

I think wyches are fine with the exceptions dodge save not working against pistols.

We need better support elements that get them into combat faster. Like a faster raider or a web way portal.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: What things can we expect to be added when our codex drops?   Mon Jul 24 2017, 12:36

Earlier some people were talking about LoW slots for the new Codex.

Vect, and Vect's Dias as 2 separate entries.

Model the Dias as another Tantalus, except with three extra Dark Lances.

Give it some Ld shenanigans. (Enemy Units within LoS and 72" suffer a -1 Ld modifier and MUST take a Morale check each phase, even if no one in the unit died.).
A good invuln save. "3+" or "4+ with rerolls". (Call it whatever the thing that gave the Dais AV13 back in 5th ed was called).
Make it Unique.
If Both Vect and the Dias are fielded in the same Army, Vect must begin the game embarked in the Dais.

Boom. Done.

Tantalus=350, three extra Dark Lances=410, Ld shenanigans would be situational (but stack with Phantasm Grenade Launchers/ Turn 5+). So call it an extra 10-20 Points for that. 3++/4++ rerollable might be another 20 Points.

So, Dias of Destruction: 450 Points.
A Tantalus with Ld shenanigans, more guns and a better save.

Now as for Vect...

Something about him being considered to be the Warlord (Just as Planned) even if there is another Warlord (I mean really, we know who's pulling the strings, right?).
An Archon statline. Throw on 2 extra Wounds and 1 extra Attack. Make him Strength 4? Probably not.
Ghostplate Armour: 4+/6++.
Shadowfield: 2++ fallible.
Clone Field: 4++. For after the Shadowfield.

Sceptre of the Dark City. Poison 3+ AP-3 Dmg 1 glowstick. Deals an additional Mortal Wound on a 6+ to Wound.
Splinter Pistol. Blast Pistol. Orbs of Despair: 12" Assault 3, S12 but roll to Wound against Leadership, Dmg 1.
Drukhari Units nearby can reroll to Hit.

Deployment shenanigans. D3 Units may be placed anywhere in the opponents deployment zone, so long as they are more than 1" from enemy models and outside impassable terrain. Or something similar. Methinks that might be a touch OP if you put the Dias, a Tantalus and a Raider with 2 squads of DL/Blaster Trueborn in there. Or a few 20 man Kabalite squads spread out to constrict as much space as possible. Making your opponent unable to actually deploy his army. Probably not that. But something similar.

Permanent 12" Ld debuff. Drukhari within 12" do not flee during the Morale Phase. Don't roll the dice.

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